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View Diary: CBO director: Obamacare won't kill jobs, it'll create them (104 comments)

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  •  Wish I had time to read through their report (0+ / 0-)

    Their conclusions sound nice and I would like for them to be true, but...

    Don't they require people to have already been insured?
    The sales pitch to date has been that ACA will insure people who weren't insured before or allow people to get "good" insurance to replace their "junk" insurance.

    For people who weren't insured before, the act doesn't put money in their pockets because they weren't paying for insurance to begin with.

    For people with junk insurance, the act may or may not put money in their pockets, depending on how much they were paying before.

    In the case of my family, even with a large subsidy, we are about breaking even because the cost of our insurance is so much higher than it was before.  No extra money to help pump up the economy and create a demand for employees.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 01:01:40 PM PST

    •  Depends on whether you use the insurance (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe, Greenfinches

      If the cost of your coverage is that much higher then it means you are probably getting better coverage.  If you stay healthy that won't matter, other than it should give you greater peace-of-mind.  However it there becomes a need for you to use your coverage, then the money it keeps in your pocket could be significant.  

      Bottom-line is that you should be getting a better value for the same money.  Also even if you don't use the coverage, others will and that will have the effect of creating the demand (or of not reducing demand) that you are looking for.

      The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

      by Do Something on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 01:11:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Better? Maybe. (0+ / 0-)

        Given that the subsidy is more than half the cost of our insurance, I would hope that we are getting better value.

        I think we are, but I haven't done all the math. We only have a silver plan.  A gold plan clearly would be better than we had, but...CHEEZ! Very pricey in these parts (North Texas).

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 01:21:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Its 'guaranteed issue' that does it. Not who ACA (0+ / 0-)

      insures, 'new' or 'existing' policyholders.

      Its the 'can not be denied insurance' provision.  It means Joe-60yearsold, who hates his job and is falling apart, can now tell his employer he doesn't need the employer's insurance bc he can now get it himself guaranteed by ACA even tho he's got a ton of pre-existing conditions (he's falling apart remember?)  It means Jane-Iwanttostartabusiness can quit her only-does-it-for-health-insurance-job and do so, bc now she can get insurance without being gouged on the individual markert bc she doesn't have pool buying power.  

      And so on.


      •  The guaranteed issue definitely raises the cost, (0+ / 0-)

        but, from a strictly personal standpoint, the guaranteed issue isn't doing me or my family any good.

        And that, I think, may be behind young people who grouse about signing up as well -- they are paying for a benefit they aren't likely to see for decades, but, let's face it, young people may not want to be old but nearly all of them hope to grow old.

        The biggest problem with ACA is not ACA itself but the fact that it's a layer on top of a ridiculously expensive health care system.  If health care itself had been fixed, ACA would be a lot less controversial because the costs would be a ton lower.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 08:29:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah its not a magic pony. Deal with it. Its what (0+ / 0-)

          we could get, and its the Dem's baby.

          Stop your trolling on this.

          •  What trolling? (0+ / 0-)

            Do you even know the definition of trolling?

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 10:44:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  IIRC you've not had 1 good thing to say about ACA (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Old Sailor

              If I remember incorrectly, I apologize.

              Otherwise the shoe fits.

              •  You remember incorrectly. (0+ / 0-)

                But that would not equal trolling even if it were true.

                To be clear:  I think ACA is not a good law overall, and that it's implementation has been poor.

                I am biased: My family is one of those that has been affected by the problems, to the point that I finally gave up on the law's guarantee that I could keep my college-aged daughter on my health insurance and bought her a separate policy.

                But -- I have also consistently said that we cannot go back to the status quo, which was even worse.

                ACA does address some terrible problems, including those faced by people who are frozen out of the insurance market and those who find their insurance rescinded because SHOCK! they need to use it. There are a number of other good nuggets tucked away in the law.

                Now, however, we need to address the real problem: health care itself.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 03:10:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  When everything you say is negative, and often (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Old Sailor

                  grasping at straws - as the original comment in this thread was - its as I thought 'overall'.

                  And that fits one definition of trolling. See,  

                  If I assume your good faith, then I would say you are defining things to specifically exclude yourself.  This includes ACA.  Maybe its caused some problems for you specifically, but you have to be able to look beyond yourself to the tens of millions it will benefit.  (I also suspect you're blaming ACA for consequences of other actors, but whatever.)

                  Likewise, while I preferred a more 'socialized' model - either Medicare for All or hybrid - I got beyond my disappointment and sometimes anger with certain Ds  (I'm looking at you Lie-berman!-filibuster-your-own-plan-cause-some-Ds-hurt-your-feefees) to objectively analyze the entire ACA regime and understand that on-balance for most Americans it is far superior to the clusterf#ck it replaced.  

                  Now we can turn our efforts to defending the gains we won, destroying the nihilist Thuglicans and then making it even better in future.  

                  Rather than spend another 100 years debating whether we should even start, as we did from TR to ACA.

                  And that's progress, which is what progressives are supposed to be for, no?

                  •  It's caused a problems for a lot of people, and (0+ / 0-)

                    those were included in a FP article recently right here on DK:


                    And it's good that people benefit -- really good. Health care in this country is practically a criminal conspiracy, but that doesn't make ACA a good law, even with its benefits.  It makes it a law that does some good things.  I'll bet even the Patriot Act meets that standard, and No Child Left Behind certainly met it.  Come to think of it, the Bush tax cuts absolutely met that standard.

                    Good intentions does not equal good law.

                    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                    by dinotrac on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 09:04:38 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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