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View Diary: Democrats: Stop the war on vaping! (180 comments)

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  •  This diary has zero science, medical and public (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, statsone

    health credibility and what the diary is ....is little more than a promotion of e-cigarettes/vaping designed to benefit tobacco industry promotion and products.  ......something that is adverse to Democrat's emphasis on science and public health.

    http://www.lung.org/...

    http://www.stateoftobaccocontrol.org/...

    Nothing in this diary is legitimate smoking cessation knowledge or communication.

    Nothing in this diary is legitimate toxicology and risk assessment review of e-cigarettes and nicotine vaping.

    No aspect of the operation of Daily Kos exists for the purpose of either promoting the interests of the tobacco industry, spreading false information about the most successful methods of smoking cessation or making anti-science claims involving nicotine and e-cigarettes.

    •  Sorry (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unred, aikanae, wishingwell

      You are wrong. As a long-time smoker who plans to emulate the many dozens of people I know who finally kicked the habit using vapor...I need to know that my party is going to make it even more difficult for me.

      And there is no disagreement that vapor is better than real cigs. Harmless? No one is saying that. Is coffee harmless? Pesticides? Sugar? C'mon. Give us a break.

      There is absolutely no way you can prove that ecigs are as harmful as cigarettes or even half as harmful. If you could they'd be off the market now.

      This is a product that invokes tsk tsk tsk in a certain contingent of the anti-smoking population and it is giving Big Tobacco fainting spells. Meanwhile, long time smokers are using them to quit in droves so everyone needs to calm the hell down and let us.

    •  Also explain.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      ....why you HR'd a diary that you merely disagreed with.

      Back in the day, that would get you banned. It's an ancient custom that deserves to be revived.

      "They bash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago volume 3)

      by sagesource on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 12:15:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I HR'd the diary because it is anti-science (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        statsone

        and anti-public health conduct designed to promote nicotine addiction to tobacco industry products to the general public and to Democrats.

        There isn't anything reality-based about this diary.

        Everything in the diary and its entire purpose is scientific misconduct and is entirely repugnant to science and public health policy carried out by progressive Democrats, who do not promote the benefits of tobacco industry products designed to spread chemical addiction.

         

        •  Sickening position (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd, sisterchristian, sagesource

          It's machiavellian in its literally complete falsehood, very reminiscent of the tactics of the modern right. Don't just lie, say literally the exact opposite. Your claims are based on agenda-driven junk science.

          The real science is squarely behind my assertions, that's why I am making them. That science is exploding and very soon your position will be revealed for what it is. My first link alone represents thousands of observations and pieces of reesarch.

    •  Science or Common Sense? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mortifyd

      On one hand there is a legal product with over 4,000 unknown chemicals in it (including tar) and on the other hand is a product with 5 GRAS products in it.

      So, explain the "science" behind making the product with 5 GRAS products in it illegal?

      That's not science, it's BS and makes a mockery of the FDA and public health organization like ALS.

    •  Public Health...... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unred

      The problem, in this situation, it the funding for and the emotional reaction of "the public health industry" specifically the ALA.

      The science is coming in.  Study after study shows ecigs are  likely not harmful.  Study after study shows second hand exposure is non-existent.  Study after study shows ecigs fluid contains less contaminates than over the counter NRT.

      Yet, we continue to hear "we don't know enough" or in their more honest moments the distaste for something that looks like smoking.  Take the recent debate in NYC where the public health argument was either "we don't know enough after 5 years of study but you should ban it because we have some awfully scary theories" or "we don't think regulators could distinguish between something that's on fire and a electronic device."

      Frankly, on this issue, the public health response is emotional and not scientific.  

      BTW, who has been running around the country fighting under 18 sale restrictions?  The ALA.   Rather thinky, isn't it.

      •  ...the vapor is water vapor tinged... (0+ / 0-)

        ...with whatever minute amounts of nicotine may be in it as a person exhales. There is no smoke to be sure. The only real issue is to regulate or not regulate nicotine which is definitely a drug. Variants, as you know, are used to kill insects since is toxic to the nervous system.

        There is no regulation to speak of and so nicotine amounts can be currently bought in different concentrations. Vaps can also be used for other thing, primarily doing "dabs," which is extremely concentrated THC. Frankly these cigarette-looking vap deals have been around for years and only fairly recently did someone decide to use nicotine.

        The real problem is that currently there is no real regulation of these at all. People do worry about these being used all over in public places and, whether you are comfortable with it or not, that they will be marketed as 100% safe and therefore kids will start using them believing there is no danger at all. Ingesting nicotine can eventually get dicey if too much is consumed.

        I have a patient who has smoked for over 50 years. He needs to stop, but can't, so he can have a much needed back surgery. He started using these vaps and tells me he can get "higher than a kite" in just a few tokes. He loves it because a couple minutes of vaping is like smoking half a pack of cigarettes for him in terms of how "nicotine high" he gets.

        While vapor itself (the water vapor) is perfectly safe and there is no second hand smoke because there is no smoke to begin with, there are other issues that, if not regulated, could become true health concerns in themselves separate from the vapor.

        I've always believed everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. The only problem with my belief is that most folks really don't know how drugs work physiologically when they start experimenting. For example, I've yet to see a meth user or even a cocaine user who knows the mechanism in what it does. Without this understanding, you are "shooting in the dark." If you don't know that cocaine is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor AND a norepinphrine reuptake inhibitor THEN what the fuck are you using it for? There is only one eventual place anyone will end up if using too much cocaine for too long...and that is in total paranoia and delusion. This isn't an opinion, it is fact. SO, if you do know what cocaine does, then you'd know that you should only use it sparingly and never go on long cocaine binges.

        A bit of the situation is just this. If you don't know exactly how nicotine works and don't know that it is toxic to the nervous system, how do you know how to regulate your own intake of nicotine? You don't. And if you could buy pure nicotine that is super, duper concentrated, well, I'm certain you can see the potential for problems.

        For the simple safety of those that wish to vap nicotine, it simply can't be truthfully said it is totally safe. That would imply you couldn't harm yourself, which isn't true.

        Welcome from the DK Partners & Mentors Team. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Knowledge Base or from the New Diarists Resources Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

        Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences. -7.38; -3.44

        by paradise50 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:46:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Several misconceptions (0+ / 0-)

          It's pretty apparent you don't vape, and citing secondhand information is weak at best.

          Vapor is a far less efficient method of nicotine delivery than smoke. On the level of 10+ times less efficient. The dosages of nicotine in vapor are by default very low.

          Nicotine's dosing is to a large degree self-limiting, as anyone who has overdosed on nicotine can tell you ... you get sick. But its toxicity has been greatly exaggerated over the years by those with agendas. See this study: http://link.springer.com/...

          The idea that you must completely understand the pharmacokinetics of a drug you take is ludicrous. That would preclude almost everyone from taking almost everything.

          Nicotine has a long, long history of consumption and attempts to paint it as dangerously toxic and thus unsuitable for recreational use are frankly revisionist.

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