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  •  I'm confused. What does the Boston (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Involuntary Exile

    Massacre and the Quakers have to do with whether Woody Allen sexually molested his young step daughter?

    And why the painting with the broad brush of feminists?  And assumptions about who believes his step daughter and who doesn't?  I believe Barbara Walters would be classified as a feminist by most, including herself, yet she doesn't believe it.  

    It appears to me that any lines that are drawn are based much more along who stands to benefit and who not to.  Barbara Walters doesn't want to believe one of her inner circle, one of the elite would do something like that.  It goes against her perspective of who she is and who she associates with.  Those who have been abused know how incredibly difficult it is to confront the abuser, and therefore believe it's unlikely anyone would choose to face the vitriol and accusations of being a liar that we all know will go with it.  Therefore, those who have been abused tend to believe the accuser.  Not because we have some deep seated belief that all abuse will be magically eliminated, but because we can't imagine anything that would make someone willing to deal with the aftermath of making the accusation other than the years of pain and suffering that watching a man who molested her receive accolades from the world over.  

    I don't think this is a situation for some kind of intellectual parsing.  It's a very personal and painful situation for those individuals personally involved.  And one for each of us to make our own decision on how we want to proceed.  I've long avoided anything to do with Woody Allen because I believed these allegations when they were first made years ago, when they were ignored by the police and media - because Woody Allen was much too important to care about some little girl he might have abused.  I have little doubt most of Hollywood will, like Barbara Walters, cast any concern for the victim aside, be happy to increase the harm she's already suffered by suggesting she has ulterior motives for making the accusation and is lying, and assure themselves and the world that they "know" Woody Allen and he'd never do anything like this.  Just like all the congregations of the world "know" their pastor or priest, all families "know" their grandfather, uncle, or family friend, etc.  They'll continue to believe what makes their lives easier to believe.  Period.

    •  I'll try to explain (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kalmoth

      Both of the examples are included to illustrate vigilante (guilty before proven innocent) justice and the shortcomings of using economic boycotts. Both of these are found within feminist discourse at this moment.

      And listen, I've been sexually abused myself as a child. So I get it, but I think there are greater systemic issues at play. I'm responding to many feminists I know personally who have adopted a shoot-first, ask-questions-later opinion.

      I know the challenges myself, but I also know that what we're trying now isn't working.

      I would not lead you into the promised land if I could, because if I lead you in, some one else would lead you out. - Eugene Debs.

      by cabaretic on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 08:07:44 AM PST

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      •  So are the big, bad feminists out there (5+ / 0-)

        shouting to lynch him?  Or just what is this vigilante justice that are being "found" within feminist discourse right now?

        If people want to boycott Woody Allen, either because they believe this young woman or simply because they think he's a icky little misogynist, they have the right.  I don't think anyone's doing it because they have some fantasy it's going to end sexual abuse.

    •  I must say, I do not believe the allegations (6+ / 0-)

      against Woody Allen. There was a pretty compelling review of the facts in a piece on The Daily Beast. ( I don't have the link right now, but I'm sure it's easy to find. If necessary I'll find it. )
      The allegations were investigated at the time , by impartial professionals with no reason to let him off.

      If he is guilty, I'd want to see him held accountable.

      I don't watch Woody Allen films. I think he lost his charm about the time he made Annie Hall. I liked "Sleeper" and "Bananas".
      I'm not interested in protecting him, more than I would any anonymous guy out there. I do realize that false accusations are rare, but when they do occur most frequently are in custody battles or divorce proceedings, I think.

      I just felt like I should stand up and be counted on this.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 08:17:22 AM PST

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      •  There's a whole world out there who doesn't (5+ / 0-)

        have any interest in reaching a conclusion, but who will be developing their opinion based upon what is said by those who do have such an interest.  And I'd include the Daily Beast in that.

        The investigation done at the time was pretty paltry.  Essentially, it was decided that a little girl's word didn't carry the same weight as the word of a powerful, respected member of Hollywood.  That kind of thing has never happened before, of course, including by "impartial" profesionals.

        There is no custody battle or divorce proceedings happening right now.  The fact that this woman is willing to upset her entire life right now to come forward, having virtually nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so, makes me tend to believe her.  Particularly since there are other symptoms which suggest something very off in his psyche - marrying one of his step daughters when she was very young and after being a father figure to her for many years and the estrangement of the rest of his children and step children.

        Sorry, but I don't trust the system, especially back then, to have done a proper job in the investigation.  

        He could be innocent.  I'm not assuming his guilt.  However, I'm also not assuming his step daughter is lying about it for some mysterious, ulterior motive.  And that's what I'm having the biggest problem with.  People like Barbara Walters attacking the alleged victim as a liar, when she knows squat about the situation.

      •  Except that we do know that one fact is true (0+ / 0-)

        In 1980 he began a relationship with Mia Farrow.  At that time, Soon Yi was around 8 years old (no one knows her exact date of birth).  When she was 20 she moved in with Allen and later married him.  

        If you don't think there is something very wrong with that picture, then go ahead and buy tickets to Allen's movies -- all I know is that as the single mother to a daughter, if a boyfriend/partner I don't know how I would cope....

        •  Soon-Yi was about *ten* in 1980 (0+ / 0-)

          She had been adopted, at about age 8, two years earlier.

          Woody Allen never lived with Mia Farrow - he had his own residence and was a daytime visitor only.

          It's still skeevy, but spreading disinformation to make it worse is highly offensive.

          If it's
          Not your body,
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          And it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 10:53:33 AM PST

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        •  I'm not interested in Allen's movies, and my (0+ / 0-)

          opinion about Soon Yi Previn is not relevant to my point.
          I just felt like I would be a minority, and I had to register an alternate opinion.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 11:04:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  77% of accusations during custody trials... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        David54

        ..are not proven.

        I read this on a parental rights website last week.

        It's estimated that 77% of the time that molestation accusations that come up in the middle of a custody battle are proved to be false or no evidence can be found to back the charges up.

        It's quite common now for people to inject these accusations into a custody trial. I have no idea if that is true or not, but it has always raised my bullshit meter when someone does.  What a convenient time for this to surface.

        I don't know who to beleive, but I see millions of people choose to believe the girl in this particular case. As if people never lie about this. 49 people in Wenatchee, WA were arrested and tried or plead to a lesser after charges of a molestation ring came to light. People served time in jail. Only it never happened. All of the testimony was eventually recanted.

        So, I take it with a grain of salt unless there is physical evidence. Because children will lie about abuse.

        O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

        by Kevanlove on Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 11:06:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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