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View Diary: Stand Your Ground on Trial in Florida Again (60 comments)

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  •  Do you have a link to this quote? (4+ / 0-)

    “The purpose of our lives is to add value to the people of this generation and those that follow.” – Buckminster Fuller

    by TheFern on Sat Feb 08, 2014 at 07:16:37 AM PST

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    •  It appears Jay is at least partially correct. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, Glen The Plumber

      Gandhi:

      Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.

      Mahatma Gandhi, "An Autobiography OR The story of my experiments with truth", Chapter 27, Recruiting Campaign, from a leaflet urging Indians to serve with the British Army in World War II.  ~ http://en.wikiquote.org/...

      I don't have context for what Gandhi is saying here, so I am not convinced that he is saying it is OK to shoot back when shot at.  Sounds more like he is saying  work with the gov't to achieve common goals.  Perhaps someone can help with providing the context.

      Here's the Dalai Lama talking to high school kids:

      Students, in a question-and-answer period, asked some hard questions.

      One girl wanted to know how to react to a shooter who takes aim at a classmate.

      The Dalai Lama said acts of violence should be remembered, and then forgiveness should be extended to the perpetrators.

      But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg. ~ http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/...

      IMO, there are times when it is necessary to respond to force with force.  But the response should be proportionate to the threat and nonlethal if possible.
      •  Gandhi was responding (4+ / 0-)

        to a policy which did not allow Indians to fight in WW1.  This was in accordance to India's Arms Act of 1878 which gave Europeans the right to carry firearms but did not afford the same rights to native Indians.  Right wing blogs and pro-gun organizations continually tout this quote of Gandhi's:

        “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.”

        as somehow describing Gandhi's desire to arm Indians.  Nothing could be further from the truth and to suggest otherwise fundamentally distorts what Gandhi's movement was all about.  Anyone with even a passing understanding of Gandhi's history knows that what Jay is espousing here is factually incorrect and patently dishonest.  I'm curious if Jay is willing to own his Right Wing distortion of this great man's legacy, or if he will just post this nonsense and walk away from it.

        As for what the Dalai Lama believes, that is a separate person altogether.

        “The purpose of our lives is to add value to the people of this generation and those that follow.” – Buckminster Fuller

        by TheFern on Sat Feb 08, 2014 at 02:01:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you, TheFern. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber, coquiero

          I greatly appreciate your providing context for Gandhi's comment.  Lots of sites have both quotations, and it seems likely that somewhere along the way the Dalai Lama's statement (also absent the context) was attributed to Gandhi.  

          •  More quotes: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theatre goon, FrankRose

            link

            My nonviolence does admit of people, who cannot or will not be nonviolent, holding and making effective use of arms. Let me repeat for the thousandth time that nonviolence is of the strongest, not of the weak.
            I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully.
            Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.
            •  Are you offering this in support (3+ / 0-)

              of Jay's mischaracterization of Gandhi's statements, or just clarifying Gandhi's positions toward non-violent opposition to a global super power?  His positions, BTW, lead to the liberation of an entire nation and the creation of the world's largest democracy.  A democracy where the privilege of owning guns is not guaranteed by law, naturally.

              “The purpose of our lives is to add value to the people of this generation and those that follow.” – Buckminster Fuller

              by TheFern on Sat Feb 08, 2014 at 03:40:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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