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View Diary: Holder: Felons should not lose their voting rights permanently (113 comments)

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  •  So you would hand him a ballot (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, Norm in Chicago

    and value his opinion ?
    You would allow him , after what he has done , to have a voice in what rules you should live by ?

    Do you have any particular reason to believe that he wouldn't end up voting for the exact same people and rules you do?
    So if he votes the way I do , he should be given a ballot ?
    Is that your argument ? Really ?

    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

    by indycam on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:21:56 AM PST

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    •  So if you neither know, nor care how he votes (6+ / 0-)

      why do you object to him voting?

      Yes, he did a horrible personal injury to your family.

      What exactly does that have to do with voting, especially given your lack of interest in how he votes?

      •  You object based on how he votes ? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Norm in Chicago, 207wickedgood

        You want to know how he fills out his ballot before you approve or object ?

        What exactly does that have to do with voting, especially given your lack of interest in how he votes?
        Your whole line of reasoning is odd to say the least . "lack of interest in how he votes" I'm a poll worker , I show a complete and total lack of interest in how people vote , I don't get to discriminate based on "how he votes" .

        You should drop that line of argument , its beyond wrong .

        Yes, he did a horrible personal injury to your family.
        What exactly does that have to do with voting
        Really ? You don't even see a connection ? Really ?

        "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

        by indycam on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:46:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  And, btw, to answer your other question (7+ / 0-)

      Do I value his opinion?  Probably not, but then I don't value the opinions of roughly half the electorate, and they all still vote for idiots and con artists like John Boehner, who then turn around and try to make sure that millions of my fellow citizens stay uninsured and die years earlier.

      •  You would give him a ballot = value his opinion . (0+ / 0-)

        Is there anyone you would say should not get to vote ?

        Murderers ?
        Rapists ?
        Pedophiles ?
        Arsonists ?

        Would you let them vote while in prison ?
        If not why not ?

        If there is no connection between doing crimes and voting ,
        why keep prisoners from voting ?

        "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

        by indycam on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:52:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. I would withhold ballots from those who (5+ / 0-)

          commit political crimes, especially related to voting.

          I don't see a connection between voting and any other type of crime, really.  So yeah, I'd be fine with letting most prisoners vote, too.

          •  So murder / rape is ok (0+ / 0-)

            but political / voting crimes are not ?

            I think your priorities are a bit askew .

            So yeah, I'd be fine with letting most prisoners vote, too.
            Charles Manson ?

            After the sob who did that to my mother was let out of prison,
            he stabbed a young woman to death and raped her ,
            he is in prison now . And you would let him vote but a person who votes twice in one election should be banned from voting ?

            Buckner continues to serve his 80-year sentence while a resentencing hearing is scheduled.

            The Court of Appeals said Kristianson properly identified some of the elements necessary for a sentence longer than the standard range of 24 to 32 years. For example, stabbing the victim 15 times constituted deliberate cruelty.

            But the court said Kristianson didn’t cite adequate evidence that Buckner constituted a future danger as a sex offender despite increasing violence in his previous 12 felonies. In one case prosecutor Jerry Wetle cited, an assault victim lived only because bone fragments from her hammer-shattered skull stemmed the flow of blood.

            This is the guy would would let vote ?
            Good thing for him he didn't vote twice and loose your concern for his voting rights !

            "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

            by indycam on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 10:29:37 AM PST

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        •  If you would withhold a ballot (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koosah, BelgianBastard

          from him, then the Republicans are free to say they would withhold a ballot from you were you convicted of a felony (even if falsely accused or convicted).

          There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

          by Cali Scribe on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 01:18:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  When making exceptions, you inevitably have (0+ / 0-)

            the slippery slope argument.  Where do you draw the bright line, if you draw a line at all?

            When "DERIVING THEIR JUST POWERS FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED" was included among the governing principles of our democracy, we were still making exceptions, like slavery and women's right to vote, and in some places there were poll taxes.

            History has incrementally rolled back the exceptions, and now, "the consent of the governed" seems more and more the desire of all citizens, all who are governed. And who is more governed than the prisoner of the state?

            Regardless of their crime, their being governed, subject to the punishment and rehabilitation regimes of the state - their being governed is undeniable - inescapable - and it seems that only those with no further possibility of re-entering society might logically be denied the right to vote. Every other prisoner, even if they are being held long term, with a hope of return to the outside has an investment in a better society, according to their best judgement.

            And officially expressing that investment - that's what voting is all about.

            I'm aware I've made an exception here - for those sentenced to life in prison - but that is the only clear bright line that makes sense for a democracy that believes in ruling by the consent of the governed.

            Mistakes are the portals of discovery. - James Joyce

            by Beastly Fool on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:28:17 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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