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View Diary: Today we fight back against NSA surveillance (53 comments)

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  •  Done, thank you (18+ / 0-)

    Opposing NSA surveillance programs is one more in a growing list of drop-dead requirements I have when it comes to supporting candidates.  I will not donate to, make phone calls for or otherwise support any candidate who is not clear in their intent to roll back these unconstitutional programs.  I will not support incumbents if they have not shown by their votes and their legislative efforts that they oppose these programs.  Forget it.

    Add it to chained-CPI, raising the minimum wage, marriage equality and raising taxes on the wealthy.  If candidates don't represent me, I don't support them.

    We have always been at war with al Qaeda.

    by Dallasdoc on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 08:35:34 AM PST

    •  I understand the sentiment, as long as you're ok (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      luvbrothel

      with the collateral damage.

      I will not support incumbents if they have not shown by their votes and their legislative efforts that they oppose these programs.  Forget it.
      If Incumbent X is replaced with Rabid Teapartier Y, a lot of people get hurt.

      Not like maybe the NSA vacuums up your metadata hurt but like maybe they lose their UE benefits and can't feed their innocent kids hurt or maybe they can't get medicaid and can't go to the doctor hurt or maybe their parents are deported and they have no pathway to citizenship hurt.

      I totally understand the idea of what you're saying especially in a primary. But in a general election I have to hold my nose and fight for the best candidate even if they oppose those things you're talking about.

      Look at 2000. There was a lot about Gore (and Lieberman especially) that we didn't like. Would it have been better if he was elected?

      Look at 2010. Yeah, the Blue Dogs sucked. Is the Tea Party House better?

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:44:21 AM PST

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      •  Or... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayBat, Dallasdoc

        "If Incumbent X is replaced with Rabid Teapartier Y, a lot of people get hurt. "

        Or put another way

        If Incumbent X is replaced with someone who actually represents the people instead of corporations, then instead of simply slowing America's march toward fascism we could actually reverse it.

        I'll state verbosely what everyone in the US already knows: The mission of Right Wing Democrats is not to stop the decline of American Democracy, but to soften the transition to Fascism and prolong their very profitable role in the decay.

        "People don’t need to be convinced that their conditions are bad; they need to be convinced that there is an alternative."

        "Our task should not be to focus on compromise, but on how best we can strengthen our side."
        --Kshama Sawant

      •  Is my effort going to change an election? (5+ / 0-)

        Of course not.  If it did, the party ought to be sucking up to me a lot more than it does.

        I'm not going to take responsibility for Democrats who don't support their base losing.  You couldn't sell that lie in 2010, and you won't sell it in 2014.  It's up to the candidates to attract enough support to win, and if they fail it's their fault.  I will support candidates who support the issues I feel strongest about.  The rest can look elsewhere for their support.

        We have always been at war with al Qaeda.

        by Dallasdoc on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 10:33:39 AM PST

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        •  the problem is (0+ / 0-)

          there are no candidates really pushing raising taxes on the wealthy.

          Are you going to sit out 2014?

          you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. And that's how you know who won.

          by GideonAB on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 10:47:42 AM PST

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          •  If nobody pursues my issues, yes (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PhilJD

            I have become a very discriminating political actor.  I'll find one or two candidates to donate to and work for, and ignore the rest.  I'm not a billionaire, so I choose to concentrate my efforts where they might do a little good.  Democrats won't win or lose the Senate based on my decisions.  

            If you want to nag somebody, go find Jim Messina at Priorities USA.

            We have always been at war with al Qaeda.

            by Dallasdoc on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 11:02:51 AM PST

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        •  also (0+ / 0-)

          if we do not hold the Senate, the Republicans get a big shot in the arm

          you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. And that's how you know who won.

          by GideonAB on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 10:52:45 AM PST

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      •  holding the nose (0+ / 0-)

        is not such an unattractive pose.

        After all, the current House is the reason why food stamps were cut.

        I see nothing progressive in that

        you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. And that's how you know who won.

        by GideonAB on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 11:36:58 AM PST

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        •  Ok fine, then you should own the fact (0+ / 0-)

          that you're ok with tea partiers cutting 50 billion from food stamps and poor people really getting slammed harder if it means less favorable dems lose at the polls.

          That's fine. You got what you wanted in 2000 and 2010.

          Real people were hurt and real people died because of it.

          But whatever, Gore wasn't so progressive. The Blue Dogs weren't so progressive.

          And if 100,000 Iraqis and tens of thousands of Americans have to die and we have a tea party house that cuts food stamps and millions can't get Medicare, that's just acceptable losses.

          I see nothing progressive in that.

          When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

          by PhillyJeff on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 01:20:47 PM PST

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    •  Nope--thank you! (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CenPhx, jbsoul, allenjo, lotlizard, Dallasdoc

      How many fronts progressives have to fight on these days.

      "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. [...] There would be no place to hide."--Frank Church

      by Joan McCarter on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:46:55 AM PST

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