Skip to main content

View Diary: Clapper's Spin Unravels in Congressional Testimony: Cannot Keep His Story Straight on Snowden (180 comments)

Comment Preferences

    •  Brave men and women... (15+ / 0-)

      ...only get on the news if they got some part blown off of them or died in the process, it seems.

      Plus, awkward geeks make terrible media interviews, and it's much easier to create fear and hatred around those awkward, "aloof", "smug" others than report about what they've been saying.

      Everyday Magic

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
      -- Clarke's Third Law

      by The Technomancer on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 08:07:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  At this point, the answer is 'no' relative (8+ / 0-)

      to issues like the economy.

      NPR's poll Jan 5-8 2014 had no 'civil liberties' or 'surveillance' get 5% or better attention as a priority across Republicans, independents and Democrats. Gallup poll during the same time period had this issue at 1-4%, depending on which more general topic you believe most people would place the NSA issue in.

      Frankly, it's surprising that Obama has reacted to it as much as he has given the polling, and I think a lot of it has to do with external pressures and not domestic ones.

      While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

      by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 08:18:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  LOL! This issue transcends virtually all issues... (40+ / 0-)

        ...unless, of course, you assume all the propaganda--which includes a focus on bullshit stat's--about our economy is legitimate. (HINT: Not even close, in terms of what the media focuses upon: U3 Index versus U6 Index; bullshit GDP, both of which are also sadly lacking, versus what's actually affecting folks out on Main Street. The stats reinforce the government's inaction[s] on inequality!)

        Essentially, the polls are driven by what the public "knows." And, the public is very poorly informed, to say the least.

        So, if your focus is on "polling," that's a pathetic joke (just like our so-called "two-party" system); you might as well just acknowledge you're cool with the MSM distorted coverage of reality, and you've fully bought into the corporatocracy, while you're at it. (That IS what you're, effectively, saying whether you realize it or not.)

        One can't have it both ways, GGE. Although, I'm sure many will continue--whether they realize it or not--to think that they can.

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:15:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What do you mean 'both ways'? Nt (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban, Tortmaster

          While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

          by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 10:47:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  that comment is either not well thought out (12+ / 0-)

            or else you're being deliberately obutuse:

            "So, if your focus is on "polling," that's a pathetic joke (just like our so-called "two-party" system); you might as well just acknowledge you're cool with the MSM distorted coverage of reality, and you've fully bought into the corporatocracy, while you're at it. (That IS what you're, effectively, saying whether you realize it or not.)"

            Check, please.

            “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

            by ozsea1 on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:59:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The comment I replied to asked if people care. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              duhban, Tortmaster, Fogiv

              They do not relative to multitude other issues, and no, I don't buy into the idea that NPR and Gallup are somehow in on a grand conspiracy.

              While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

              by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 01:13:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  consolidated corporate media doesn't require (7+ / 0-)

                a grand conspiracy theory. It can affect polling without one as well.

                And NPR isn't even close to what it once was

                http://pando.com/...

                Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

                by greenbastard on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:31:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  So you guys are saying either (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tortmaster, Fogiv

                  A. They really do care
                  B. They don't care but they would if it wasn't for the corporate media
                  C. They really do care and the polls are lies

                  Which one?

                  And is it still not reality if they vote that way too?

                  While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

                  by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 03:12:10 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What part of this comment don't you understand... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    caul, DeadHead, lostinamerica, Don midwest
                    ...you might as well just acknowledge you're cool with the MSM distorted coverage of reality, and you've fully bought into the corporatocracy, while you're at it. (That IS what you're, effectively, saying whether you realize it or not.)

                    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                    by bobswern on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 06:07:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Because I don't respect ad-homs. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Tortmaster, Fogiv

                      Which I'll take as all of your lack of ability to refute my point. Polls are so inconvenient when they show something we don't like, but I doubt they'd be so shunned if they showed a massive public interest in the NSA issue. Carry on.

                      While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

                      by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 06:40:10 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  People respond to polls based on the info (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        bobswern, bluedust, ozsea1, Don midwest

                        Available to them.

                        If propaganda is influencing public opinion, is it any wonder polling might reflect that?

                        The MSM has been pro-government/anti-Snowden. People don't fully grasp the magnitude of this issue.

                        And now here you are, in this subthread, amazed that Obama has paid as much attention to this as he has, given the public's supposed "lack of interest" in it, a lack of interest Obama and his administration have helped foster, and with which the MSM has been all too willing to assist.




                        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                        by DeadHead on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 07:04:18 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  OK, so all of you now have (0+ / 0-)

                          confirmed, amongst myriad posts and potshots at me, that I'm right, they don't care right now relative to other issues like the economy.

                          If you have complaints that they SHOULD care more, that's another topic, but 'should' does not equal 'do', here or at the ballot box.

                          While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

                          by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:35:51 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, for once... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            4kedtongue

                            I didn't personally take a potshot at you. I merely described your reaction above. The only difference being that I used the word "amazed," when you used the word "surprised."

                            That people "should care more" is what many of us have been saying from the start, despite the resistance of several people here, either outright or more subtly as "static," which tends to be your approach.

                            The MSM has treated Obama more favorably wrt surveillance than they did his predecessor, and so while you might technically be correct given the polling, what people are saying is that there are important reasons for that being the case. If the issue was presented propaganda-free, I suspect people would care a lot more than is apparent.

                            Moreover, Democrats likely care a lot less with a Democrat in the White House than Republicans do. Same goes for Republicans when Bush was in office.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:21:21 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  They care, when it suits them (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Don midwest

                    Recall fondly the heady days back at the end of 2001 and the beginning of 2002. Asking questions was frowned upon, independent thought not falling in line with the propaganda was met with derision and disdain. Are those the people in question? Do the Citizens know or care?
                    These citizens that take their privileges for granted, the reactionary cattle led by the nose don't even count. Unless of course someone pees in their drinking water.
                    Perhaps you live in a cosmopolitan area of thinking and learning. Not so here, in the Conservative Heartland of the Midwest. I can cite MKUltra, Operation Chaos, the misconduct of the Nixon Administration, Contras in Nicaragua, Arms sales to Iran while supporting Iraq, etc. I can speak about issues demonstrating an absolutely inept foreign policy at times. Or perhaps discuss current events in laymen terms, Ne-ver-mind the geopolitical aspect, keep it simple stupid, and still be met with the same glassy eyed stare if not outright hostility.
                    Remember Camp Lejeune water contamination? Ask the good people complaining about their water quality if they remember. Chances are they are interested now, but I'd bet my bottom dollar they could give a damn before Freedom Industries peed in their river.
                    D. if they don't know or don't care, they don't count
                    Let them keep their faith in god and enjoy whatever Clapper and gang have in store for them

      •  I believe... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lysias, macleme

        that the reason for this is:
        Republicans actually support this policy, and Democrats are onboard because it is a Democratic President.  The reasons for Independents are too broad to categorize, but I'd be willing to be that much of it has to do with apathy and/or ignorance.

        "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

        by cardboardurinal on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 01:08:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I believe that ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... the American people are smarter than that. They heard this big fanfare, waited for the horrible allegations and proofs that would surely follow, and when they were served a giant nothingburger instead, they lost interest.

          As I've said all along, Snowden showed us that spies spy, Governments spy on other Governments and there exists a stringent three-branch, multi-layered approach to protecting the privacy of United States citizens.  

          Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

          by Tortmaster on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:27:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who served them this "nothingburger?" (4+ / 0-)

            Why, the very criminals who stand to benefit from "nothingburgers" being fed to the public, that's who.

            This doesn't look like a "nothingburger" to me.

            I understand why you'd want to dismiss it as such. It's easier to sweep all of this under the rug than it is to admit this administration, the one you go out of your way to defend, is the same, if not worse, than the last one in many areas, mass surveillance included.




            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

            by DeadHead on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 10:33:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  possibly a fatal blind spot (16+ / 0-)

      Most people, particularly those of older generations, and especially our politicians, are willfully clueless about technology (aka "teh toobs") and do not understand or admit how deeply and dangerously it is woven into all of our lives - whether we like it or not. It's the age old trap of deliberate ignorance: they think, "the less I know about this stuff, the less it will affect me".

      Combine that with a vague but unshakable exceptionalist trust that American government is always "the good guy" and we have the "perfect storm" of a stupid blind spot , where corrupt officials and authoritarians can continue to erode our rights, and ultimately our democracy with impunity, with no significant consequences. Sure, it helps immensely that all of this illegal and corrosive surveillance is now public knowledge, thanks to Snowden, but I'm afraid it will be years before the voting population is sufficiently savy to care enough to pressure for action, and then it may be too late.

      I find it amusing these days when I hear folks bitch about how bad education is and how ignorant young people are about the ways of the world. These are the same people who proudly reject having a smartphone and own an 8 year old Mac that they only use for web browsing and email. The reality is that, in this modern society, the ones doing the most damage are those who have refused to update their knowledge of technology and how it affects us, not to mention recognize that we Americans aren't so damned exceptional an more.

      "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

      by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 08:46:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What you describe here... (12+ / 0-)

        ...is one of my motives for starting up Everyday Magic.  If people learn how it all works or at least have a way to think about it in a way that isn't "techie speak", the shit that happens on the 'Net isn't suddenly something they can just detach themselves from.

        It's one of the main differences between the Millennials and even tech-savvy members of other generations.  Older generations had this added to their lives.  It still feels like an "other" to them.  Millennials were born into this world.  It's a part of them that has nothing to do with savviness.

        Everyday Magic

        Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
        -- Clarke's Third Law

        by The Technomancer on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 08:52:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Get off my lawn (20+ / 0-)

        What's the cutoff for "older generations'?  Most of my decrepit peers are tech savvy, while most of the young 'uns I talk to (college age) are completely indifferent to the dangers of a surveillance society.  They also don't know what the Stasi was, they don't remember Daniel Ellsberg, and they don't think about the power of the state (possibly because they've never received a draft notice).  If anything, our greatest danger comes from cultural and political ignorance and amnesia. There's something about being condemned to repeat history - give me a minute and I'll remember!

        •  Most people know how to... (8+ / 0-)

          ...perform the equivalent of driving on technology.  Understanding what the NSA is actually doing requires knowing how it actually works under the hood, and what you can do to both avoid it and stop it.

          Everyday Magic

          Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
          -- Clarke's Third Law

          by The Technomancer on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:23:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  no no, it's now "Get off my blog!" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest, Don midwest

          Seriously,  see my comment above. It's two different problems: ignorance and indifference, and more likely combinations of both for lots of folks regardless of age. Though Millennials may have an edge: they can read up on history, but a lot of older people just can't mentally  adjust to the rapidly changing landscape.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:45:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's less mentally adjust... (8+ / 0-)

            ...and more culturally adjust.

            Millennials are deeply cynical and sarcastic.  Unsurprising, given that we got raised on some of the biggest loads of horseshit ever shoveled to a generation.

            Everyday Magic

            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
            -- Clarke's Third Law

            by The Technomancer on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 10:09:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  There are a few (6+ / 0-)

            of us hippies left over from the 60s that get it and are not technophobes.
            Those of us who remember the "Red Menace" and Civil Defense and all the rest, including the massive spying on the people involved in the Civil Rights movement know that the government is not above anything that interferes with "State" or "National" Security.

            What do we want? Universal health care! When do we want it? Now!

            by cagernant on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 04:05:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  arrived at the truth through a different angle (5+ / 0-)

              People of your generation who were involved with the various activist movements of the time are some of the strongest critics of the NSA/CIA/FBI/DEA, etc - because they KNOW that these entities have always abused every scrap of power given them to suppress dissent and maintain the status quo. It is not even a question that if they aren't spying on every activist now, they soon will be, and then they will act on their "data". Like the man said, "You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows".

              Meanwhile the younger generation are grappling with these facts from a different perspective: they know how deeply networked we are now, and how easy it is to collect our data. They are becoming disillusioned distrusting of government after having betrayed by the political process. They are told that they shouldn't expect privacy any more, but I suspect that that assertion is more propaganda on the part of corporate interests than acceptance by Millennials.

              What we really need is to get all the old hippies, the aging punks, and the disillusioned millennials together in one place to share their particular take on what's going on behind our backs and against our interests.

              Sheesh, wasn't that a rant!

              "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

              by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 04:32:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's already happened with the Greens (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                quill, macleme, Broken

                and probably why Jill Stein was on the presidential ballot for 95% of the voters this last time. They ARE coming together....  

                What we really need is to get all the old hippies, the aging punks, and the disillusioned millennials together in one place to share their particular take on what's going on behind our backs and against our interests.
                Challenge here is how to make our Party attractive for this reunion ?

                Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

                by divineorder on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 05:54:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  You really wrote that: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Fogiv
                " ... have always abused every scrap of power given them to suppress dissent and maintain the status quo."
                Do you stand by it? I think it is about as hyperbolic as any statement I've read on daily kos. (Ergo, the quotes).

                Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

                by Tortmaster on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:54:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Doesn't make it false. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  quill, 4kedtongue




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 10:36:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  familiar with COINTELPRO? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DeadHead, 4kedtongue

                  Ever read up on the sordid history of the FBI, CIA, etc? J Edgar Hoover ring a bell? The NSA director states that he wants to "collect it all".

                  "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

                  by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:19:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Do you stand by it? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Fogiv

                    Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

                    by Tortmaster on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:31:39 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  History re-run (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      quill

                      I'll stand by History repeating itself. But doesn't it stand  on its own? Has not power been abused again? The 4th amendment has been violated on massive scale never witnessed before. I call that abuse of power. Where is the oversight? NSA administrators like Clapper for example, lying. Is that what we call oversight now? Where is the accountability? No Perjury charges have been filed, and the whistle blower is hiding in Russia fearing for his life. Where is the due process? Bulk collection of Data without warrants, doesn't sound like due process to me. Where is the Representation? I don't believe the average piss ant was represented in the secret courts. How did any of this come to light? Oversight? LOL
                      It came to light thanks to a Patriot hiding in Russia with a price on his head.

                    •  Good intentions (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      quill

                      I would be very interested in a demonstration of good intentions. I'm not talking about geopolitical calculations. I'm talking about a earnest honest to goodness demonstration of good intentions. Was NSA digging around in Brazil's biggest Oil Companies files in the pursuit of terrorists? LOL
                      Sounds like more abuse to me. Abuse that tarnishes our Republic, undermining our security, putting us all at greater risk.

      •  I'm no Luddite (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quill, lysias, davidincleveland, macleme

        but I do have an eight-year-old Mac (used for many things) and I do reject having a smartphone. The latter has more to do with the cost of a data plan than with any qualms about technology.

        The copincidence of your two examples gave me a chuckle.

      •  You're overgeneralizing. I have never owned (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quill, davidincleveland

        a cellphone, never mind a smartphone, and I no longer own a computer at home.  And that doesn't stop me from thoroughly disapproving of what the NSA has been doing.

        As a matter of fact, the reason I have never owned a cellphone is that I knew from my years working in military signals intelligence how cellphones could be used to track people and I thought, the more people have no cellphones, the harder it will be for them to track people.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 03:29:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  of course I'm generalizing! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland

          Don't know about over-generalizing. We're talking about trends between groups of millions of individuals, each with their own particular individual relationship with technology, but with aggregate tendencies one way or the other.

          Like I said (ranted?) above, I think people from different generations TEND to arrive at opposition to the NSA from different directions.

          As for rejecting technology, that may work for you, but not for an increasing majority of people, making it a growing problem that won't go away. At some point even you may be faced with choices over whether to accept more tech in your life, with all the risks associated, or become more isolated from the rest of society. My point here is that we'd all better care about this stuff (and you obviously do) because at some point it will affect us, no matter how much we avoid it.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 05:32:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I would say the older generation (0+ / 0-)

        who actually built the internet, is far more aware of how insecure it is.

        Young people today think nothing of putting their most private data out there on the internet - nothing someone who know how it actually works would ever do.

        Do not confuse the ability to use technology with the ability to create it.

        And I think the older generation who went through Vietnam, is far less likely to trust the government.

        And yes, I am an IT professional and I reject having a smartphone, because I am smarter than you on the subject.

        I think those who use technology in an ignorant manner who are most susceptible to damage.

        •  the kids will figure it out (0+ / 0-)

          Problem is, they won't be so willing to give up their leaky tech. We're not there yet but the choice to reject technology is becoming synonymous with rejecting society. IMO rather than rejection, the solution is to demand and take our digital rights and privacy back, combined with development and common use of more secure technology (as Snowden has suggested).

          And yes, I have a smartphone, which I love dearly for it's ability to connect me to information, enable communication, entertain me, help with work, etc.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 07:00:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  So, the politicians who have ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... provided oversight for, and funded, and had their bureaucrats develop and implement the most sophisticated devices that can be loaded in a plane or drone to pick up cell phone signals in Yemen or neutralize mainframe computers in an Iranian nuclear weapons facility or use only anonymous telephone numbers in a sophisticated and ingenious way to search for outside terror agents infiltrating the country are the ones who are clueless about technology?  

        Statistically, perhaps you can make a generalization like that about "older people" but I'd still like to see a study. But why the attack on politicians? Just because an 8-year-old kid can operate an iPhone doesn't mean he or she is as technically savvy as a Senator who sits on a foreign intelligence panel or a bureaucrat who builds spying devices.

        Moreover, you need to choose between ridiculing a group of bumbling nincompoops who know nothing about technology or the "security state" that has all of these next-generation devices and programs and is omniscient and sees everything.

        Or, are you going for the Terminator script, as the bumbling nincompoops build a security state that don't know about that will come to life and take over?

        Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

        by Tortmaster on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 09:50:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  yeah, most politicians know shit about technology (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead

          They get their talking points from briefs prepared by aides and lobbyists for their patron industries. They propose legislation conveniently written by the industries that benefit from it, so they have no need to know anything.

          The people who actually conceive, design and implement the technology are far below in the heirarchy. You don't actually think the politicians come up with this stuff do you?

          As for "security state", that doesn't require much tech - just a militarized police force, internal security oriented agencies like the Homeland Security, and a perpetual war mentality.

          But you've got your threats to democracy mixed up - we're discussing the surveillance state. You know, the NSA and it's "collect it all ways". And no, the politicians on those "oversight" committees don't know exactly what the NSA is doing - they've admitted as much.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:14:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You need to go to ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... Senator Wyden's official site and download the pdf link here to see what you're missing. That's a letter from Clapper to Wyden that has been made public. You can continue to write things like this:

            "And no, the politicians on those "oversight" committees don't know exactly what the NSA is doing - they've admitted as much."
            Or, you can learn about what really happened.

            On another note, politicians, like attorneys, need to know a lot about a lot of things. Are you saying all Democratic politicians know nothing about technical issues? Are you saying they care so little about their jobs or the safety of their constituents, and are so incurious, that they don't learn what they need to know? Sorry, but if you're that deeply cynical, then there can be no Government to satisfy you.  

            Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

            by Tortmaster on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 04:11:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site