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  •  Yes, I noticed him for the first time earlier... (35+ / 0-)

    today on a different diary thread.  He was blaming greedy retiree's pensions for business financial issues and Detroit's bancruptcy which was completely contrary to the facts and everything everyone was saying there as well.

    He appears to be one of those "types" who try to be as offensive as possible without actually saying anything HR worthy.

    I say "Oh Well", let him make his glib comments and laugh at himself for being so smart.  

    He is apparently not intelligent enough to actually debate something like the economic realities of pensions and their effect on business' bottom lines or how the republican Party has manipulated what President Obama has said over the years, turning them into selling points, over and over again to the point of deceptively editing videos of him that are truncated and words ripped from the middle of sentences.  

    He seems to be a Foxnews, bumper sticker Republican determined to be a thorn in the side of us "Libruls".   Let him have his fun and feel sorry for his cognative disfunctions.

    "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

    by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:17:31 AM PST

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    •  Didn't mean to offend (0+ / 0-)

      However, your read of my post re: pensions is way off the Mark. Nothing that I wrote blamed working men and women for Detroit's bankruptcy. That is an outright lie to say I wrote that.

      What I noted was that pensions as a retirement model are dead because they are always underfunded and the people get screwed.

      You best believe it does

      by HangsLeft on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:38:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nice try but your spin doesn't cover your ass (26+ / 0-)

        Not even close.

        Here's the comment you responded to along with your comment.

        The fucking 401(k) is what helped in a big way (47+ / 0-)

        to get us into this mess.  American workers gave up tangible benefits now for some fictional million-dollar-pot-of-gold at the end of the retirement rainbow.  They fell for the sales pitch and hand over millions to the wall street sharks every week.  That quarterly statement is the end-all and be-all of everything now.  This is why cost-cutting has become the menace that it is.  

         Because pensions  (0+ / 0-)

        Are unsustainable. Look at the companies and cities they have pension obligations they can't fund and are going bankrupt.

        by HangsLeft on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 06:26:09 PM PST

        Then you followed with this...
        Pensions only work as long as you have your business or city is viable. As soon as hard times hit, and they always do, there no money to pay for the promised benefits.
        You think pensions are doomed to failure. Period. There's no wiggle room in your position and you happily blame the pensions, and by extensions the pensioners, for the problems of the cities and business that have them. That's a load of crap. Pensions can and do work. The problem is for the last 30 years we've had politicians on both sides all too willing to look the other way or actively loot pension funds. That's the problem, not the pensions, not the pensioners, but the corruption and greed which you are all too happy to ignore.

        Food processed to be nothing more than simple starches with two dozen flavorings and stabilizers added to make it appear to be food isn't "food". It's "feed" -- what you give to livestock to fatten them up for slaughter.

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 11:52:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Here is the comment section I was refering to: (14+ / 0-)

        Readers can judge for themselves.  While I admit I was paraphrasing from memory, that is what I got out of your comments.  I was not lying:

        * The fucking 401(k) is what helped in a big way to get us into this mess.  American workers gave up tangible benefits now for some fictional million-dollar-pot-of-gold at the end of the retirement rainbow.  They fell for the sales pitch and hand over millions to the wall street sharks every week.  That quarterly statement is the end-all and be-all of everything now.  This is why cost-cutting has become the menace that it is.  
        Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

        by PsychoSavannah on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 08:16:03 PM CST

        * Because pensions Are unsustainable. Look at the companies and cities they have pension obligations they can't fund and are going bankrupt.
        You best believe it does

        by HangsLeft on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 08:26:09 PM CST

        * Oh bullshit. The quarterly-profit mania is the problem.  When business is in it for the long haul, investing is smart.  Pensions can invest in long-term, viable businesses.  But when business is in it for the quick buck, the whole system falls apart.
        Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

        by PsychoSavannah on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 08:43:02 PM CST

        * Was Detroit In it for a quick buck?  Were they trying to make quarterly numbers?  Or were promises made that many knew could never be kept. Pensions only work as long as you have your business or city is viable. As soon as hard times hit, and they always do, there no money to pay for the promised benefits.
        You best believe it does

        by HangsLeft on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 08:50:34 PM CST

        *  Detroit The funds actuaries still report that the fund is effectively fully funded.  While their projections do not reflect the trust fund will be able to cover 100% of accrued liabilities, it can cover the 80% of liabilities it needs to be able to cover to be considered fully funded - and then some - based on what the funds own actuaries say.

        The "underfunding" reported by Orr is based on the report he commissioned from Millman - and that report is full of bad math, bad actuarial assumptions, and admits as plain as day that it relies on estimated guesses to arrive at its conclusions.

        Anyone with a lick of knowledge on how pensions actually work dismissed that nonsense report for the BS it is long ago.  The discount rate is abnormally low, the "shortage" is calculated over a ridiculous infinite horizon, the totally whacked and nonstandard idea of using "Very Preliminary Rough Guesstimates" for key figures needed to do calculations...  That report has more holes than swiss cheese.

        by Darth Stateworker on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:17:18 PM CST

        * [new]  Got it. I'll let the people not receiving checks know. I'll bet they'll be relieved.
        You best believe it does

        by HangsLeft on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:23:24 PM CST

        *  Apparently you have a hard time accepting being schooled when it's demonstrated that your opinion is uninformed.  Hey, we all have our faults.

        The blatant wage theft that Orr is perpetrating on those pensioners is nothing to joke about.  They did the work.  They can't take it back now.  As such, the city shouldn't be able to welch either.  It is morally and ethically bankrupt - as is anyone who agrees with it or so callously dismisses or trivializes it.

        by Darth Stateworker on Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 09:47:53 PM CST

        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 12:03:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  They can be required to be funded. (4+ / 0-)
        What I noted was that pensions as a retirement model are dead because they are always underfunded
        That people explicitly undermine the model does not say that the model is bad.

        There is a level of funding at which pensions are viable.  We need to require and ensure that companies are indeed funding pensions to those levels.  Also, pension funds should be severed from corporate assets, so that they cannot be raided for other purposes.

        -7.75 -4.67

        "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

        There are no Christians in foxholes.

        by Odysseus on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:16:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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