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View Diary: NRA legislator thinks it was totally awesome that Aurora murderer had 100-round magazine (422 comments)

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  •  Get a pro-gun Rights Democrat. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ER Doc, gerrilea

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:45:03 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Sure. Just not a purist who holds extreme (8+ / 0-)

      positions on the issue like you apparently do.

      •  What is my 'extreme' position, exactly? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, CarlosJ

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:16:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Register ALL guns and the transfer of ownership. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miggles, coquiero, Sharon Wraight

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:59:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That is extreme. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, CarlosJ

            But I don't hold that extremest view.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:02:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's not at all extreme, but your absolute refusal (8+ / 0-)

              to consider it, the fact that you translate that to mean CONFISCATION! show how extreme and out of step with everyone but the NRA your views are.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The absence of such a law & the utter political (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea

                impossibility of passing such a law, and three recently unemployed Senators suggest otherwise.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:05:47 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks for the NRA talkingpoints! (6+ / 0-)

                  It's only a political impossibility because a loud minority, of which you seem to be one, keep repeating this NRA mantra. You show yourself with every comment.

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:11:34 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That and the 20-30% of (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea, savvyspy

                    Registered Democrats that voted for the recall of Democrats.

                    That's one helluva political winner you got there.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:15:35 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Agree (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      FrankRose, CarlosJ

                      Guns are a losing issue for Democrats and in Colorado especially. The NRA will only back off when democrats actually beat NRA candidates and recalls at the polls. That hasn't happened. I fact in CO the NRA has put the state senate and governor's mansion in play in a year the dems should be kicking the GOP's ass.

                      We hear a lot about demographic trends and plenty of stats but the one thing the GOP has going for them is they win elections and at the end of the day that's all that counts.

                      •  that comment is far off the mark ... quite the (4+ / 0-)

                        contrary, in fact:

                        He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                        Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.” As he spoke, hanging on the wall behind him were photos of his wife and two children—affixed to the front of a case that stores a loaded combat shotgun.

                        http://www.5280.com/...

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:53:34 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Claiming something is "talking points" (0+ / 0-)

                    is an evasion of discussion not participating in one.  If something is just "talking points" then itshould be  easy to show as false so why don't you do that instead of evade and dismiss?

          •  Register all speeches and create (0+ / 0-)

            a central database of athiests and those who get abortions.

            Not extreme at all right?

            •  when was the last time... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Miggles

              ...some asshole marched into a classroom full of kindergarteners and massacred them all by talking to them about atheism?

              "Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." - Mark Twain

              by GrimReefa on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:10:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  When was the last time someone's free speech (0+ / 0-)

                formed an oppressive government and slaughtered millions of people by using that speech to follow them?

                Ohh I can think of several examples.

                Rights are still rights despite the horrors some tiny minority might create by undertaking those rights.

                We don't ban free speech because the KKK uses it to spread their message even though we find the message repugnant because the rights of all people to speak freely is more important than restricting the KKK.

                You need to ingrain this high respect for the rights of all people to engage in the exercise of their rights in ways you would not or that you dislike.

                Remember an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

                Nameste.

    •  Nope. (16+ / 0-)

      It's time to drive the gunloons out of the public space.
      The tide is turning and H-5 doesn't hold any more. We're sick of the carnage.
      And the promoters of that carnage.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:00:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some did get driven out of the public square. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, CarlosJ

        Just ask Giron, Morse & Hudak.

        "the tide is turning"
        It started turning a long time ago.
        Support for gun rights have been going up for the past twenty years.
        Support for gun control has declined for the past twenty years.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:18:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  In an off year election with tons of NRA money (4+ / 0-)

          and media propaganda, they narrowly defeated a couple of legislators that were on their way out anyway and the gunloon stooges they installed will be gone after the next election.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:01:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Gun controllers had a better than (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, CarlosJ

            FIVE-to-ONE spending advantage in those recalls.

            You need to find a better excuse for these election failures.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:02 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Gunloons had the support of the major (5+ / 0-)

              media in the state that more than made up for the spending disparity and Bloomberg's money (the bulk of the gun control support) was branded by that in-state media. The NRA got media ops that dwarfed what the gun controllers could buy.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:08:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So 'tons of money' is no longer pertinent (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CarlosJ

                because "CONSPIRACY!!1!"?

                Can't argue with that logic.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:13:25 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You can't argue with the fact that the gun lobby (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  coquiero, Glen The Plumber

                  in Colorado gave the state to the Dems:

                  He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                  Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.” As he spoke, hanging on the wall behind him were photos of his wife and two children—affixed to the front of a case that stores a loaded combat shotgun.

                  http://www.5280.com/...

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:58:23 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Frank, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FrankRose

                  Reality-based went out of the window as soon as reality disagrees with their cognitive bias.  No reason to think humans on this site are any different from humans anywhere else.

            •  That's not true, the Sunlight Foundation (3+ / 0-)

              concluded that the amount spent can't be known because the Koch Bros/ dark money spending that goes unreported.

              Americans for Prosperity (AFP) spent in the recalls - how much is no one but they know:

              http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

              The Kochs and the NRA have a history of manipulating elections with dark money and phony groups:

              One morning last month, Rhode Islanders woke up to the news that the National Rifle Association had been charged with the second-largest campaign finance ethics violation in state history. In a settlement reached by the Rhode Island Board of Elections, the NRA admitted that it improperly funneled money from its national Political Action Committee (or “PAC”) to the Rhode Island-specific PAC, illegal under state law. The PAC was fined a historic $63,000.

              What the stories didn’t reveal? That the NRA’s wrongdoing, the record fine, and the shuttering of the NRA’s Rhode Island PAC was the result of the initial hunch of one person: Brown University student Sam Bell.

              http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/...

              and:

              On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

              The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

              The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

              http://www.bradblog.com/...

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:06:53 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  From the Sunlight foundation: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CarlosJ

                "In an unusual political twist, the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight foundation.

                There is absolutely no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun-rights side.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:13:09 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You forgot to read their conclusion, which is, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Silvia Nightshade, FogCityJohn

                  you can't make sweeping conclusions about how much was spent:

                  Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
                  https://sunlightfoundation.com/...

                  You can say that what is publicly known shows that the pro gun side spent more.

                  But, if you are supportive of the Koch Brothers and their agenda, than you will overlook the fact that they spent in the recalls and they don't report how much they spent, and disregard this fact.

                  It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:20:05 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yet, like every other credible source: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CarlosJ

                    The Sunlight Foundation concludes that: "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."

                    Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million--Denver Post.

                    There is no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                    Not. A. Single. One.

                    As exciting as this CONSPIRACY theory implying that there must have been somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500,000 spent with nobody noticing, I'm going to stick with the factual numbers.

                    It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.
                    You are the one that got Colorado Democrats recalled.
                    You are the best asset the GOP has had for 20 years.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:32:55 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Do you count the Koch Brother's contribution (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cal2010, coquiero, FogCityJohn

                      to the recall efforts as part of the money spent on those recalls?

                      And, if so, do you know how much they spent?

                      The Sunlight Foundation has been unable to determine how much the Koch's Americans for Prosperity spent because they don't have to report it, and therefor they conclude that:

                      Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
                      This is a pattern for the Kochs and AFP:

                      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                      On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

                      The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

                      The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

                      The United Sportsmen of Wisconsin (USW) mailers, almost identical in form, font, content, and type-setting, as we showed, had no information about who had paid for the mailings on them, and instructed voters that they needed to return their absentee ballots to the elections clerk by August 4th --- even though ballots may be delivered to the Wisconsin election clerks as late as the close of polls on August 9th.

                      Since we ran our article over the weekend, which suggested, among other things, previously-undocumented coordination between AFP and USW, and since there was little information to be found about USW on the web, a number of readers have been digging in to try and figure out exactly who the so-called United Sporstmen of Wisconsin actually are, as have we.

                      http://www.bradblog.com/...

                      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                      by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:41:58 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  They also conclude.. (0+ / 0-)

                        "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight Foundation

                        The Denver Post concurs: "Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million"

                        Even Kos concurs: "Democrats dramatically outspent Republicans. Combined, Democratic-aligned groups spent $2.3 million, while GOP-aligned groups spent just $482K"-Daily Kos

                        Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                        But don't take my word for it, don't take the Sunlight Foundations word for it, don't take the Denver Post's word on it, don't take The Daily Kos word on it, don't the the word of every single credible source:

                        Show us where this $2,500,000 was spent without anyone noticing.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:54:21 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Actually, that's not the conclusion that matters (0+ / 0-)

                          to your argument - I already said I agreed with that point. Yes, the public data show the pro gun safety side spent more, but the issue is the dark money - ie, Americans for Prosperity/Kochs. That money is not reported and not known

                          Do you think the money AFP spent on the recalls should be included in the tally of the total amount spent?

                          Do you know how much the Kochs spent?

                          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:00:53 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Dark money is there for both sides. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.

                            Every. Single. One.

                            In order for your contention to have any merit, you have to find where $2,500,000 of 'dark money' was spent without anyone noticing.

                            Your excuses for these humiliating political failures are lacking.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:06:23 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Where is the dark money on the other side? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero

                            What orgs? Because my understanding is that AFP and the Koch's dark money funding network is unique and that most of the funding on "the other side" was done on the books.

                            What dark money orgs funded the anti-recall efforts in Colorado and why didn't the Sunlight Foundation make mention of this?

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:20:11 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Every single credible source concludes that (0+ / 0-)

                            the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                            Every. Single. One.

                            If you are unable to use simple, basic & proven fact then your political predictions will continue to be as humiliatingly terrible as they were for Colorado.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:25:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Right - we agree on that point, the public data (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            show the gun safety crowd spent more.

                            There hasn't been a tally on the dark money. The Sunlight Foundation found that the Kochs spent in those recalls, but how much is not known.

                            And you can't seem to name an org on the pro gun safety side that spent dark money in those recalls.

                            Combined, the Kochs are the richest "person" in the world, so there's a lot to go around.

                            100, 60 second ads could cost $150K to $175K - you could use that up in a few days. Repeat those 100, 60 second ads another 10 times over a period of 6 months (during the sig gathering and in the run up to the vote) and you're at $1.8 million or so very quickly.

                            So, it's more than conceivable that the Kochs dumped money directly or through am arms-length group.

                            Finally, some groups worked in Colorado but are not detected either in Colorado state records or the broadcast records. Press reports revealed that Americans for Prosperity, the Koch-backed advocacy group that spent more than $33 million at the federal level on the 2012 elections and is not required to disclose its donors, was working on the races. The group, for example, distributed this door hanger, which criticizes Morse not about his stance on guns but on his support for the Obama health care law.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:49:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So nobody was able to notice the money spent (0+ / 0-)

                            on ads?

                            Way to break the case, gumshoe.

                            Be sure to tell the Sunlight Foundation, Kos, the Denver Post and every other credible organization that concluded that gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:12:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's the point of dark money - it isn't reported (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FogCityJohn

                            If you read the Sunlight block quote I posted, you would see they say "not detected" - in other words, they aren't mind readers, nor will they or any other news org devote resources to try to read minds.

                            The only way to track that kind of spending (ie, dark money that is not reported) is to listen to all radio and watch all TV 24/7 for the 6 months leading up to the recall elections - maybe you would like to volunteer travel back in time and do that for us?

                            If not, then the jury is still out on exactly how much was spent on those recalls.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:27:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't have to be a mind-reader if money is (0+ / 0-)

                            spent on ads.
                            You just need addition.

                            Your conspiracy theory isn't supported by anyone, including the Sunlight Foundation, which is why they say "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."
                            Kos concurs.
                            Denver Post concurs.
                            Every credible organization concurs.

                            The jury isn't out on who spent vastly more.
                            It is settled fact, despite your desperate attempts to make excuses for the humiliating losses you created.

                            You lost these seats.
                            You lost despite these seats being in Democratic Districts.
                            You lost despite having far more financial resources.
                            You lost painfully, humiliatingly & totally.
                            Now you have to deal with it.

                            Although you haven't yet managed to get past the first stage of grief (denial), I can assure you--the party has already moved on to acceptance.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:43:16 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

          •  And more money everytime a D talks about (0+ / 0-)

            gun control.

            Obama and Pelosi increased NRA membership by what 50% in 3 months?

      •  the light (0+ / 0-)

        at the end of the tunnel?

        I must confess I have seen no clear evidence that this time it will be different

        The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

        by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:21:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  No, just let a "pro gun rights Republican"... (13+ / 0-)

      Keep talking… See: This diary…

      Prediction:  This seat will be Democratic again by the next election…the next Full collection…

      No need to adopt the Republican position on guns… If you want a Republican position on guns, vote for a fucking Republican…

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A pro-gun rights Democrat. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, CarlosJ

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:19:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The people of Colorado took your last sentence (0+ / 0-)

        to heart.

        Good job with that.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:27:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just think, when the next election turns... (9+ / 0-)

          The seat back to the Democrats, you'll literally have no argument… Counting the days…

          If you want a candidate with a Republican position on guns, vote for a Republican… It's really quite simple…

          We'lltake the seat back in the next full election, I guarantee it… And it won't be with a candidate sporting a Republican position on guns… Would you like to place a wager?

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  how much (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose

            are you prepared to bet on your prediction?

            Loads of psychics make predictions but few place significant money on them.  They cannot afford the publicity of a failure

            The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

            by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:18:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You don't need a psychic to see what's coming (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThatSinger, coquiero, cal2010

              for the GOP in Colorado:

              He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

              Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.”

              http://www.5280.com/...

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:30:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That article was written in August (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CarlosJ

                What happened in Colorado in September?

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:43:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Funny how these go together… (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  We Shall Overcome, FogCityJohn
                  Brown’s pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda
                  Please proceed…

                  Baby, where I come from...

                  by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:28:17 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Good point - FrankRose is all about protecting (3+ / 0-)

                    "innocent American's rights" ... except when he's not - which seems to be just about always.

                    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                    by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:55:51 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  He uses the plural "rights" yet only ever talks (3+ / 0-)

                      about a singular right...

                      Right?

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 04:30:00 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh? (0+ / 0-)

                      What right have I been pushing to take away?

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:34:27 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You are sympathetic to Koch brothers, NRA (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        coquiero, ThatSinger

                        backed recall elections of Democrats - you were basically cheering them on in the run up to the elections.

                        85% of Colorado voters support background checks and 50 to 55% support gun mag limits - the majority of those are Dems.

                        You are more aligned with the right than the left.

                        Why don't you write more diaries and expound on your comments - it would be interesting to examine the "logic".

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:47:04 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm not sympathetic to the Koch brothers at all. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          CarlosJ

                          You, on the other hand, gave them a huge opportunity.
                          You are the best asset they have.

                          85% of Colorado voters support background checks and 50 to 55% support gun mag limits - the majority of those are Dems.
                          Where are the recalls of those that voted against the background checks?
                          Where were they while Giron, Morse & Hudak lost their jobs?
                          You are more aligned with the right than the left.
                          Not at all. That's why I'm not the one insisting on a policy that does nothing but lose seats for Dems.
                          But good job trying to convince someone to vote GOP.
                          As shown by the results in Colorado; it is something you are extremely good at.

                          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:58:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  You didn't answer. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CarlosJ

                    What happened in September, bud?

                    You should know.
                    You caused it.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:35:07 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You keep saying that... (3+ / 0-)

                      I live in California, bud... I guess you're saying that I can then take credit for ALL the other elections won by politicians who share my viewpoint on guns, including the current POTUS, given the fact that he was faced with an unprecedented fear campaign launched by your brothers in arms, the NRA? Fine, you take Colorado, I'll take the rest...

                      Your game of greased pig wrestling wherein any election other than the Colorado special election doesn't count because it wasn't specifically about guns is over... you've lost...

                      Don't believe me? Re-read Kos' (you know, the guy who.. uhh... fucking OWNS this site?) diary...

                      Try badgering him with this bullshit...

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:44:22 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  If you want the Democratic party to be a regional (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        CarlosJ

                        party, then you are doing an excellent job of doing so.
                        Fortunately I trust the party will act more wisely going forward.

                        Fine, you take Colorado, I'll take the rest...
                        Damn straight you will.
                        You can own the results of 2014.
                        I look forward to hearing your excuses in the aftermath of those elections as well.
                        Re-read Kos' (you know, the guy who.. uhh... fucking OWNS this site?) diary...
                        What relevance is that? I am talking about elections, liberties and this nation.
                        You are talking about.....a blog.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:52:56 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You apparently didn't read the diary... (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          coquiero, FogCityJohn

                          which is not surprising, because you write the same shit regardless of the diary, but in the diary, it specifically refers to one of the people who share your extremist viewpoint on guns and how articulating his extremist viewpoint on guns just caused him to shoot himself in the foot (something you're all too familiar with) making himself look like an asshole (again.. well, you get the idea) with likely electoral consequences...

                          See, here's the "greased pig" part of attempting to reason with you...

                          Unless the Democrats base their ENTIRE 2014 election strategy about gun control and nothing but gun control, even if they hold the Senate and take back the House you'll claim it's because "guns weren't an issue", even if they maintain their EXACT platform position on guns as they hold now... you'll claim that they "shied away" from guns no matter what... and any loss you'll blame on gun control, even if it's not the primary issue... because at the end of the day, you're nothing but a Gun Concern Troll and you're using your faux concern for elections to mask your true concern which is guns... it's what you do and it's who you are... there's no reasoning with you and there's no point in trying... which only leaves mocking you when I'm in the mood and ignoring you when I'm not... expect both...

                          Baby, where I come from...

                          by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:04:19 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Why wouldn't they base their election strategy (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            around gun control?
                            I thought it was such a big winner.....well other than the 'winning' part.

                            Weird......

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:07:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  See what I mean? Classic concern trolling... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            Very few Democrats have gun control at the top of their mastheads, not because they don't share the party's OFFICIAL position on gun control, but because they're focused on other, more pressing issues... they're not "shying away" from it, it's just that GUNS aren't their primary concern (unlike you)...

                            But most REPUBLICANS have "gun control" and their NRA ratings at the VERY top of theirs... and their positions match yours... identically...

                            Therefore, I guess it's reasonable for me to take EVERY loss by a Republican as a repudiation of your viewpoint on guns because THEY make every election about guns and in the past 8 years they've lost the presidency twice, the Senate twice and took back the House, NOT on guns but on Obamacare and "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS"... so you cling to those 3 races in that one Colorado SPECIAL election and pretend it supports your frothing "viewpoint"...

                            Now I'm bored... no more attention for you...

                            Baby, where I come from...

                            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:23:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Very few Democrats have gun control (0+ / 0-)

                            eight issues down from the top.
                            If it was a winning issue you'd think they could find room in a scroll-down on their website to mention it.

                            But most REPUBLICANS have "gun control" and their NRA ratings at the VERY top of theirs
                            That's what you do when you have an 'election winner'.
                            You notice that they don't have Mitt's 47% quote at the top of their stated issues.

                            Just stick with singing a few tunes, bud.
                            Politics seem to be a bit difficult for you to grasp.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:30:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  For a vey long time I thought I had a right (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        reasonablegunsplz, coquiero

                        To live in a peaceable society, without weaponry, assault, bigotry, and threat

                        That if faced with these, I could engender legal protection rather than vigilantism

                        That it may not always be easy, and the struggle may be long, but it is the right thing to do

                        That Dr King, Jr, was, and is, right, that pursuit of non-violence is the very best we can do and it is all we can do, if we are to call ourselves humane

                        But he was shot, in the neck, by a legally owned Remington Gamemaster 760 .30-06-caliber rifle from the Aeromarine Supply Company with a Redfield 2x7 scope

                        His teacher in non-violence, Mahatma Gandhi, was fatally shot three times with a Beretta 9mm

                        Mao Tse Tung said "Power comes from the barrel of a gun;" he did not mean that that power is right or wrong, he meant that the gun will end any discourse, any humanity, that life is weak in its raw power

                        That, Frank Rose, is the right you try to take from me, with your single-minded advocacy of the instruments of violence, and saturating discourse with flippancy, one-liners and obstruction to dialogue (it's not just you, but the behavior is over the top)

                        Of my entitlement to a philosophy of peace and social justice

                        But that's okay, I want to be part of a legacy for our childrens' hearts and minds, of Dr King's, Gandhi's teachings of pacifism and non-violence, not of weak and selfish brutality, and that is just it, you cannot take that from anyone, even with a gun

                        It is becomes hard to have discourse on dailykos amid the bullying words, but that's why we're hear so we carry on

                        And this is the definition of 'right' that I am using before you go off on it link

            •  I'm not claiming clairvoyance... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coquiero, cal2010

              I'm basing it on the neanderthalish blather of people like the Republican from Colorado Kos alluded to in this diary... given enough rope they'll shoot themselves in the foot every time... just like Frank did...

              How's that for mixed metaphors?

              Baby, where I come from...

              by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:31:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  The people of Colorado thank the gun lobby for (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ThatSinger, coquiero

          handing the state to Democrats:

          He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

          Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.”

          http://www.5280.com/...

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:29:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Better cover all the bases (6+ / 0-)

      Make it a pro-fetus, pro-traditional marriage, anti-minimum wage, anti-union, anti-Obamacare, pro-secessionist, pro-gun Democrat.  

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