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View Diary: NRA legislator thinks it was totally awesome that Aurora murderer had 100-round magazine (422 comments)

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  •  Some did get driven out of the public square. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerrilea, CarlosJ

    Just ask Giron, Morse & Hudak.

    "the tide is turning"
    It started turning a long time ago.
    Support for gun rights have been going up for the past twenty years.
    Support for gun control has declined for the past twenty years.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:18:40 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  In an off year election with tons of NRA money (4+ / 0-)

      and media propaganda, they narrowly defeated a couple of legislators that were on their way out anyway and the gunloon stooges they installed will be gone after the next election.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:01:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Gun controllers had a better than (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, CarlosJ

        FIVE-to-ONE spending advantage in those recalls.

        You need to find a better excuse for these election failures.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Gunloons had the support of the major (5+ / 0-)

          media in the state that more than made up for the spending disparity and Bloomberg's money (the bulk of the gun control support) was branded by that in-state media. The NRA got media ops that dwarfed what the gun controllers could buy.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:08:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So 'tons of money' is no longer pertinent (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CarlosJ

            because "CONSPIRACY!!1!"?

            Can't argue with that logic.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:13:25 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You can't argue with the fact that the gun lobby (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coquiero, Glen The Plumber

              in Colorado gave the state to the Dems:

              He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

              Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.” As he spoke, hanging on the wall behind him were photos of his wife and two children—affixed to the front of a case that stores a loaded combat shotgun.

              http://www.5280.com/...

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:58:23 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Frank, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose

              Reality-based went out of the window as soon as reality disagrees with their cognitive bias.  No reason to think humans on this site are any different from humans anywhere else.

        •  That's not true, the Sunlight Foundation (3+ / 0-)

          concluded that the amount spent can't be known because the Koch Bros/ dark money spending that goes unreported.

          Americans for Prosperity (AFP) spent in the recalls - how much is no one but they know:

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

          The Kochs and the NRA have a history of manipulating elections with dark money and phony groups:

          One morning last month, Rhode Islanders woke up to the news that the National Rifle Association had been charged with the second-largest campaign finance ethics violation in state history. In a settlement reached by the Rhode Island Board of Elections, the NRA admitted that it improperly funneled money from its national Political Action Committee (or “PAC”) to the Rhode Island-specific PAC, illegal under state law. The PAC was fined a historic $63,000.

          What the stories didn’t reveal? That the NRA’s wrongdoing, the record fine, and the shuttering of the NRA’s Rhode Island PAC was the result of the initial hunch of one person: Brown University student Sam Bell.

          http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/...

          and:

          On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

          The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

          The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

          http://www.bradblog.com/...

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:06:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  From the Sunlight foundation: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CarlosJ

            "In an unusual political twist, the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight foundation.

            There is absolutely no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun-rights side.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:13:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You forgot to read their conclusion, which is, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Silvia Nightshade, FogCityJohn

              you can't make sweeping conclusions about how much was spent:

              Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
              https://sunlightfoundation.com/...

              You can say that what is publicly known shows that the pro gun side spent more.

              But, if you are supportive of the Koch Brothers and their agenda, than you will overlook the fact that they spent in the recalls and they don't report how much they spent, and disregard this fact.

              It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:20:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yet, like every other credible source: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CarlosJ

                The Sunlight Foundation concludes that: "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."

                Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million--Denver Post.

                There is no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                Not. A. Single. One.

                As exciting as this CONSPIRACY theory implying that there must have been somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500,000 spent with nobody noticing, I'm going to stick with the factual numbers.

                It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.
                You are the one that got Colorado Democrats recalled.
                You are the best asset the GOP has had for 20 years.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:32:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do you count the Koch Brother's contribution (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cal2010, coquiero, FogCityJohn

                  to the recall efforts as part of the money spent on those recalls?

                  And, if so, do you know how much they spent?

                  The Sunlight Foundation has been unable to determine how much the Koch's Americans for Prosperity spent because they don't have to report it, and therefor they conclude that:

                  Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
                  This is a pattern for the Kochs and AFP:

                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                  On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

                  The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

                  The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

                  The United Sportsmen of Wisconsin (USW) mailers, almost identical in form, font, content, and type-setting, as we showed, had no information about who had paid for the mailings on them, and instructed voters that they needed to return their absentee ballots to the elections clerk by August 4th --- even though ballots may be delivered to the Wisconsin election clerks as late as the close of polls on August 9th.

                  Since we ran our article over the weekend, which suggested, among other things, previously-undocumented coordination between AFP and USW, and since there was little information to be found about USW on the web, a number of readers have been digging in to try and figure out exactly who the so-called United Sporstmen of Wisconsin actually are, as have we.

                  http://www.bradblog.com/...

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:41:58 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They also conclude.. (0+ / 0-)

                    "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight Foundation

                    The Denver Post concurs: "Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million"

                    Even Kos concurs: "Democrats dramatically outspent Republicans. Combined, Democratic-aligned groups spent $2.3 million, while GOP-aligned groups spent just $482K"-Daily Kos

                    Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                    But don't take my word for it, don't take the Sunlight Foundations word for it, don't take the Denver Post's word on it, don't take The Daily Kos word on it, don't the the word of every single credible source:

                    Show us where this $2,500,000 was spent without anyone noticing.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:54:21 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Actually, that's not the conclusion that matters (0+ / 0-)

                      to your argument - I already said I agreed with that point. Yes, the public data show the pro gun safety side spent more, but the issue is the dark money - ie, Americans for Prosperity/Kochs. That money is not reported and not known

                      Do you think the money AFP spent on the recalls should be included in the tally of the total amount spent?

                      Do you know how much the Kochs spent?

                      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                      by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:00:53 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Dark money is there for both sides. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        CarlosJ

                        Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.

                        Every. Single. One.

                        In order for your contention to have any merit, you have to find where $2,500,000 of 'dark money' was spent without anyone noticing.

                        Your excuses for these humiliating political failures are lacking.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:06:23 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Where is the dark money on the other side? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          coquiero

                          What orgs? Because my understanding is that AFP and the Koch's dark money funding network is unique and that most of the funding on "the other side" was done on the books.

                          What dark money orgs funded the anti-recall efforts in Colorado and why didn't the Sunlight Foundation make mention of this?

                          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:20:11 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Every single credible source concludes that (0+ / 0-)

                            the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                            Every. Single. One.

                            If you are unable to use simple, basic & proven fact then your political predictions will continue to be as humiliatingly terrible as they were for Colorado.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:25:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Right - we agree on that point, the public data (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            show the gun safety crowd spent more.

                            There hasn't been a tally on the dark money. The Sunlight Foundation found that the Kochs spent in those recalls, but how much is not known.

                            And you can't seem to name an org on the pro gun safety side that spent dark money in those recalls.

                            Combined, the Kochs are the richest "person" in the world, so there's a lot to go around.

                            100, 60 second ads could cost $150K to $175K - you could use that up in a few days. Repeat those 100, 60 second ads another 10 times over a period of 6 months (during the sig gathering and in the run up to the vote) and you're at $1.8 million or so very quickly.

                            So, it's more than conceivable that the Kochs dumped money directly or through am arms-length group.

                            Finally, some groups worked in Colorado but are not detected either in Colorado state records or the broadcast records. Press reports revealed that Americans for Prosperity, the Koch-backed advocacy group that spent more than $33 million at the federal level on the 2012 elections and is not required to disclose its donors, was working on the races. The group, for example, distributed this door hanger, which criticizes Morse not about his stance on guns but on his support for the Obama health care law.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:49:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So nobody was able to notice the money spent (0+ / 0-)

                            on ads?

                            Way to break the case, gumshoe.

                            Be sure to tell the Sunlight Foundation, Kos, the Denver Post and every other credible organization that concluded that gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:12:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's the point of dark money - it isn't reported (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FogCityJohn

                            If you read the Sunlight block quote I posted, you would see they say "not detected" - in other words, they aren't mind readers, nor will they or any other news org devote resources to try to read minds.

                            The only way to track that kind of spending (ie, dark money that is not reported) is to listen to all radio and watch all TV 24/7 for the 6 months leading up to the recall elections - maybe you would like to volunteer travel back in time and do that for us?

                            If not, then the jury is still out on exactly how much was spent on those recalls.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:27:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't have to be a mind-reader if money is (0+ / 0-)

                            spent on ads.
                            You just need addition.

                            Your conspiracy theory isn't supported by anyone, including the Sunlight Foundation, which is why they say "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."
                            Kos concurs.
                            Denver Post concurs.
                            Every credible organization concurs.

                            The jury isn't out on who spent vastly more.
                            It is settled fact, despite your desperate attempts to make excuses for the humiliating losses you created.

                            You lost these seats.
                            You lost despite these seats being in Democratic Districts.
                            You lost despite having far more financial resources.
                            You lost painfully, humiliatingly & totally.
                            Now you have to deal with it.

                            Although you haven't yet managed to get past the first stage of grief (denial), I can assure you--the party has already moved on to acceptance.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:43:16 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

      •  And more money everytime a D talks about (0+ / 0-)

        gun control.

        Obama and Pelosi increased NRA membership by what 50% in 3 months?

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