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View Diary: To All in Anti-KXL Camp Planning Anti-Pipeline Civil Disobedience -- DEATH LURKS IN CONFINED SPACES (40 comments)

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  •  Sorry, this is virtually unintelligible: (0+ / 0-)
    In particular, this diary is addressed to the Michigan Coalition Against Tar Sands which apparently considers it a good idea that direct action civil disobedience actions incorporate felony criminal conduct with recent adverse conviction results to some of their direct action members.

    Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding"

    by Bob Love on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 04:00:26 PM PST

    •  OK....Let's make this clear... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LinSea, Wee Mama, Oh Mary Oh, Bob Love, MGross

      MCATS members that commit felonious acts and take actions involving pipeline entry that endanger their lives and the lives of others are criminally irresponsible, and nothing about their conduct is valid or exemplary environmental advocacy.

      •  Much clearer. nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LakeSuperior

        Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding"

        by Bob Love on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 05:24:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  it's called civil disobedience (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        unfangus

        just like the civil rights movements

        people realize that your approach has failed so they are doing something different

        civil disobedience is as american as apple pie

        unfortunately, fascist responses to civil disobedience are part of america tpp

        thank you for the warning re: pipeline dangers

        the rest of this diary is concern trolling on a meta scale

      •  Trespassing is a felony? (3+ / 0-)

        I've been in and on the edges of a fair number of civil disobedience actions, and have never heard them referred to (except maybe by the right-wingers) as "felonious acts." Trespassing or refusing to obey the lawful order of an officer, the usual charges, are generally misdemeanors. Even people who did things like flinging blood on the Pentagon steps or cutting fences generally get misdemeanor charges.

        I understand that if organizers are advocating entering pipes -- hadn't heard of this, but perhaps some are -- you are trying to yell and scream and wave your arms and warn them how stupid and dangerous this is. But throwing around words like "felonious acts" and "criminally irresponsible" makes your warnings less credible to me, not more.

        •  I'll first ask the question..... (0+ / 0-)

          Would Teddy Roosevelt have gone camping with John Muir if Muir had been a felon?

          ...just for thought...

          I think you know the difference between a misdemeanor and felony.  I'm not objecting to misdemeanor conduct that is incidental to civil disobedience.   What I am objecting to is felony conduct that is any part of civil disobedience, and I am especially critical of felony conduct involving people entering pipelines as a dangerous act to themselves and others.   Participating in or promoting  human entry of confined spaces in pipelines as part of protest is totally irresponsible and should be rejected by all citizens and environmentalists everywhere.

          The characterizations of "felonious acts" and "criminal irresponsible" are there to address acts that involve humans entering the confined space of a pipeline or pipeline structure.   I call them felonious acts because a person who commits the act of entering a pipeline under construction is committing a felony under federal and state laws.  

          Civil disobedience that does not involve committing felonies or carrying out felonious acts and is limited to misdemeanor conduct like simple trespass does not get pushback from me, although Michael Brune is wrong about promoting even this type of civil disobedience within the Sierra Club.

          However, non-profit organizations that promote felonious conduct as civil disobedience are not engaging in valid public trust environmental stewardship and leadership and such organizations deserve widespread environmental movement condemnation when they advocate entry of a pipeline under construction as a suicidal protest tactic.

        •  "Trespassing is a felony?" (0+ / 0-)

          It will be if the diarist has his way.

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