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View Diary: Michael Dunn's Defense Did Invoke "Stand Your Ground" (161 comments)

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  •  What Ms. Corey said is true, and beside the point (16+ / 0-)

    There appears to be a lot of confusion, because there is a lot of leeway in application of the law.

    Read the diary, please.

    Claiming immunity from criminal and civil prosecution is only one aspect. Claiming stand your ground after being charged with homicide is still an option for the defense. And it was used in both cases.

    It's within the self-defense law. The SYG defense rationale is an integral part of the jury instructions, because it's encoded within the self defense law.

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

    by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:20:06 PM PST

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    •  From the "authors' of Stand your ground.. (12+ / 0-) this video @ link.

      "Stand your ground is not a defense, but an immunity statute, providing immunity from criminal prosecution."

      But it is deeply embedded into the jury instruction in the language and the circumscribing effects it has on narrowing in the jurors minds what they are allowed to consider.

      And from you in a past Diary where you helped me with this:

      Thank you  LilithGardener for this helpfullink explaining Florida’s SYG statute:

      the law actually creates a presumption that a shooter had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm when using deadly force.

      It's bad law

      Thank you LilithGardener for chasing this down and explaining it so well.

    •  SYG is an integral part of the law now (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      but it was not likely an operative consideration in either Dunn or Zimmerman.

      Still, even in jurisdictions that mandate it, retreat is required in few circumstances. For instance, it is recommended only where the actor can attempt escape without increasing her own peril.27 This subjective standard focuses on what a person knew in fact at the time, rather than "whether defendant 'could have retreated' with complete safety" looking at the totality of circumstances in hindsight.28 One need not calmly evaluate exit strategies when faced with pressing danger, for "[d]etached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."29 Nor is fleeing ever required when threatened with a firearm.30 New York, moreover, construes necessity liberally,31 with the result that deadly force may be justified more readily without retreat than in other states.32 Additionally, fleeing is often the province of those who have played some active role in
      escalating matters. 33 In sum, these facts paint retreat as a tool of conflict avoidance rather than one of improvised escape.  Retreat's role in the self-defense context is more theoretical than practical.
      Put simply, "duty to retreat" is one of those things that sounds nice and reasonable in principle, but is easily dispensed with in practice.  Forget SYG, the entire concept of self-defense in common law is in dire need of statutory repair.  Additional burdens need to be placed on the defendant.  Only one state, Ohio, requires the defendant bear any burden of persuasion on self-defense.  Instead, all self-defense claims should be evaluated according the strictest and most rigorous standards we can find applied to officer-involved slayings.
    •  didn't do Dunn a lot of good. (0+ / 0-)

      Jury didn't see him as having much of a defense.

      •  Except for the one or more (0+ / 0-)

        who decided that the only thing Dunn did wrong was lay fire indiscriminately.

        •  lets see what happens. (0+ / 0-)

          criminal justice is a fits and starts kind of thing.

          Dunn faces a new trial on Murder, and if the State recharges on Murder 2 or Voluntary manslaughter, he will go down
          for that also.

          I don't think there was enough for a murder 1 charge and that distracted the jury.  I think it was clear and convincing
          for Manslaughter, and it was a bit fuzzy on Murder 2.

          Personally i think in a month or two they will have a plea bargain.  Dunn will drop all appeals, cop to Murder 2, and
          the State will ask all sentences to go concurrent.
          So he is likely to serve 16 years, and get rolled to a halfway house for the remaining 8.

          Of course Dunn has crappy attitude, may get into more prison trouble and may serve the full bird.

          •  Well (0+ / 0-)

            Dunn was convicted for first degree attempted murder and for wantonly and maliciously firing into the vehicles.  With premeditation and a predicate felony established by conviction, I don't see how Corey could not seek retrial on first degree murder for Davis.

            •  it's called plea bargaining. (0+ / 0-)

              corey can only do so many trials per year,
              she has an excellent hand, all she really has to do is say
              "We are going to hold the indictment off until you
              are sentenced on your other charges, if the judge hits
              you for 3 consecutive 20 year rides, well, we will indict
              for murder 1 and let a junior prosecutor get some experience but, if you drop all your appeals, allocute to Murder 2, and
              give a statement, well we will recommend the judge give
              concurrent sentences and no more then 25 years on the
              Murder 2 charge with a recommendation that you are
              sentenced to a low security prison and that after serving 20 you are parole eligible"

              That is by the way a total gift to him.

              •  Why bother? (0+ / 0-)

                I could understand if this was a case that hadn't attracted such vehement national interest, or one in which the victim's survivors weren't actively pressing for the full measure of justice, or if Dunn had a reasonable chance of acquittal.  But not one of those three things hold here.

          •  You think? Or you hope? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JaxDem, LilithGardener, a2nite, poco

            You'd be comfortable with that? That he be allowed to resume his life after serving only 8 years for murdering a child and desperately trying to kill the others?
            O how little value is placed on the black life.
            This is doing nothing but serving to reinforce the notion that  the black life is of little to no value.

            Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

            by JoanMar on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 04:56:30 PM PST

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      •  Because he didn't kill everyone like he was (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kerplunk, JaxDem, poco

        Supposed to. He left 3 n-word alive. He didn't do his extermination properly.

        nosotros no somos estúpidos

        by a2nite on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 03:26:52 AM PST

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        •  He Is A Complete Failure In The Eyes Of The (0+ / 0-)

          Fox News Merican.

          He blew it for those who want their merica back.

          G. Zimmerman is still number one merican hero.

          In the Olympics of take merica back who will get the next gold medal?

          and when will the Reality TV Series begin production?

          "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger 2003

          by kerplunk on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 11:43:13 AM PST

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