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View Diary: Canada's Harper sure to try twisting Obama's arm on Keystone XL in Mexico meeting this week (58 comments)

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  •  Yes, the empirical evidence shows that they (0+ / 0-)

    are both wrong.

    And I've posted numerous links verifying that.

    Including right here in this diary, showing that the railroads can easily ramp up to move greater-than-KXL sized volumes of crude oil (in less time than it would take to build the pipeline, btw).

    If you don't believe my links, do your own googling. The information is out there from multiple sources.

    •  i see one link (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike, Glen The Plumber

      in your thread with mb. unless you include gordon lightfoot, which may be as definitive as your proof gets. i'll just follow your thread with mb.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 12:03:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK, here are some quotes that come from (0+ / 0-)

        Joe Oliver - who (per your previous post) is an unquestioned bearer of truth:

        On his visit to Washington yesterday, Canada’s Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver had a pretty blunt message to the Americans: the dirty tar sands will be continued to be developed regardless of whether the highly controversial Keystone XL pipeline is approved or not.

        Oliver said: “If Keystone wasn’t developed there would effectively be as much development of the oilsands in any case, as a result of the use of rail and as the result of export of the crude to other markets.”

        Oliver’s argument was at least backed up by one analyst who was quoted in the Canadian press yesterday. Phil Skolnick, a New York-based analyst at Canaccord Genuity, published a report arguing that a combination of growing oil-by-rail capacity and other new pipelines is increasingly providing alternatives to KXL.

        Skolnick is quoted as saying: “The oil will find a way down, and if Keystone gets delayed, at the minimum you still don’t have a pinch point because this rail capacity should be built by that time anyway”.

        He added: “The main message is that Keystone XL, and the fear of rejection, has been the overhang on these [Canadian energy] stocks. Because of all the rail advances that are coming on, that should no longer be a fear”.

        link
        •  you're flailing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber
          an unquestioned bearer of truth
          pummel that straw. hurt it.

          as sanguine as he is in that quote, it kinda makes you wonder why such a hard push for kxl. as you said above. although i think we're interpreting it differently. as are, apparently, the industry sources and echo chamber environmentalists.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 12:26:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It was you who first heralded his comments (0+ / 0-)

            as being worth paying attention to.

            To me, they never were.

            Especially now that he's speaking voraciously on both sides of the issue.

            Bottom line - read the trade journals and find out what's really happening - pay the politicians little or no heed.

            •  if any are public companies (0+ / 0-)

              their shareholders should be outraged that so much money is being wasted lobbying for something so unnecessary. and keep pummeling that straw.

              heralded his comments

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 12:36:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are you feeling remorseful about doing that now? (0+ / 0-)

                I seem to have touched a sore point there.

                In any event, maybe you'll be a tad more reluctant to trot that guy and his cronies out in the future in support of your position.  

                And no, about the first point you raise, if TransCanada is a public company (or not, doubt if that's important here), they're probably eternally grateful that they have high level contacts that help them pursue their otherwise increasingly untenable business aspirations.  Of course, who knows how many campaign contributions were needed for them to secure this level of support . .. . but, as the Koch Brothers have taught everybody, that comes really cheaply (e.g., they are reaping vast rewards for spending 3 cents on each  $10 of revenue).

                •  i quoted him (0+ / 0-)

                  among several others. funny that there's so much agreement. and funny that the industries waste so much money lobbying for something they don't really need. that's terrible management!

                  The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                  by Laurence Lewis on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 12:46:23 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Oh yeah, the Gordon Lightfoot reference (0+ / 0-)

        was a (in retrospect perhaps misguided) effort to connect with readers who refused or opted not to look at the cold hard stats.

        And to try to convince them on a more visceral / emotional level that Canadians have fairly massive railroading expertise.

        Or, IIRC, as they call them up there, railway expertise.

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