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View Diary: Delusional Democrats and Market Fundamentalism (230 comments)

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  •  Yes really (0+ / 0-)

    But I've noticed that those here that desperately want to push for a third party want to push the TP as some sort of positive. Which to me is ironically hilarious but it's also dangerously disconnected from reality.

    How many Senate seats has the TP cost the GOP? How many House seats? Hell the TP is looking like they are going to cost the GOP even as a party with their continued childish intransigence to any immigration reform and fixation on the private parts of women.

    But if that is what you want to use as your model well go ahead.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 02:59:43 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The Long Game (19+ / 0-)

      Democrats still haven't figured out that there is value in pushing boundaries.

         The TP helps the Republicans in two ways that may or may not be reflected in immediate election wins. 1) It moves the Overton Window, thus making your opponent's mainstream points look more extreme and your opinions more mainstream, and 2) It keeps your opponent on the defensive from a constant barrage of bullsh*t.

        Republicans tolerate extremists on their side because it is smart politics.
        Democrats decided to exclude their own extremists back in the late 40's, and Democrats still haven't figured out why this was wrong.

      None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

      by gjohnsit on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 03:13:59 PM PST

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      •  There is absolutely no proof for this (0+ / 0-)

        what the TP espouses is not anything new. It's just simply the distilled core of the GOP party. Those beliefs have been and remain as popular as a free glass of mercury.

        The objective reality is that without the TP the GOP would have the Senate. The objective reality is that without the TP the GOP probably would have made a hollow attempt on immigration but probably could have at least tried to bring their latino/asian numbers back to Bush II (and counted that as a success). The fact is that the TP is slowly strangling the GOP and has been for several decades.

        You don't think Democrats tolerate extremists? What do you think Sanders is? Or even Warren? That's just off the top of my head. Neither are really in the middle of the party and Sanders is not even registered as a Democrat.

        I find your 'evidence' vastly selective and somewhat arbitrary. You want people to ignore the myriad problems with the TP and what they are doing and instead pretend they are a net positive. If that's how you want to waste your time that's up to you. I will say that do not be surprised when you do not gain much traction outside of a small few.

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 03:27:19 PM PST

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        •  Sanders isn't (20+ / 0-)

          a Democrat.

          I haven't seen the Democratic Party do anything but ignore him.

          And you think Warren is an extremist?

          That speaks volumes.

          •  what I would give (0+ / 0-)

            for you and your group to be able to actually read.

            Please point out where I said that "I think (insert name) is an extremist"

            When you fail to do that (as I did not say that) I would like an apology. Do not worry I will not be holding my breath on you actually being capable of doing so.

            Sanders caucuses with the democrats which of course is the point one you either are blind to or just refuse to acknowledge.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 10:16:14 PM PST

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            •  It was pretty damn clear to me! (5+ / 0-)
              You don't think Democrats tolerate extremists? What do you think Sanders is? Or even Warren?
              Perhaps you should consider working on your writing skills.
              •  again I ask (0+ / 0-)

                where did I ever say I consider either an extremist?

                The discussion was about the democrat party tolerating extremists not who I think is an extremist. This is less about my writing skills (though admittedly there are better writers here) and more about the assumptions people make. Like for example you assuming that simply because I point out that some would consider Sanders and Warren extremists that that automatically includes me.

                That's some pretty knee jerk defensiveness.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 08:40:26 AM PST

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                •  You see drache, this is why people are... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  reflectionsv37

                  fucking sick of you.

                  You don't think Democrats tolerate extremists? What do you think Sanders is? Or even Warren? That's just off the top of my head. Neither are really in the middle of the party and Sanders is not even registered as a Democrat.
                  "That's just off the top of my head." implies that you think that Warren and Sanders are extremists because in the previous sentences you used rhetorical questions to that end.

                  In the final sentence you make a definitive statement declaring both Warren and Sanders to be not "...really in the middle of the party..." and leading readers to the conclusion that they are on the extremity of the Liberal spectrum.

                  I don't think you know what you are saying most of the time.

                  http://helpdesk.dailykos.com/discussions/problems/41839-dracheduhban-the-case-against-him/page/1?to=%2Fdiscussions%2Fproblems%2F41839-dracheduhban-the-case-against-him

                  by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 01:29:23 PM PST

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                •  You are so full of shit! (1+ / 0-)

                  You must be the most misunderstood person on this site. Perhaps you should spend a little more time thinking about what you're writing since you seem to always be misunderstood.

                  •  Always? (0+ / 0-)

                    Well that certainly is a stretch but certainly here it should be abundantly clear that people are seeing only what they want to see.

                    Thank you for your personal attacks but please tell me what you really think.

                    Der Weg ist das Ziel

                    by duhban on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 04:13:09 PM PST

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                    •  And you chasten other people for their lack of... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      reflectionsv37

                      comprehension!

                      Here, I'll break it down for you...

                      You are so full of shit!
                      Here reflectionsv37 made a definitive statement. There's not a lot to parse here. You are full of shit.
                      You must be the most misunderstood person on this site.
                      Here is reflectionsv37 is making a mild understatement with a hint of a question. He/she is not really sure that you are the most misunderstood person here, but suspects so. Me? I would have gone with 'You must be the most misunderstood person on the Internet.' You see, I'm not sure that there isn't a Mongolian yak herder online trying to order a delivery of hand knitted yak booties for the winter from Amazon. Otherwise I would have been more definitive.

                      And the last part of reflectionsv37's comment offers a possible remedy for your lack of clarity in communication.

                      Perhaps you should spend a little more time thinking about what you're writing...
                      Meditation is good and reflectionsv37 is doing you a real solid with this suggestion. But he/she didn't go far enough IMHO. I would have suggested sitting on a mountain in Mongolia. Perhaps you can talk to the aforementioned yak herder about his problem? It might be a business opportunity in disguise!

                      There, I hope that helps.

                      http://helpdesk.dailykos.com/discussions/problems/41839-dracheduhban-the-case-against-him/page/1?to=%2Fdiscussions%2Fproblems%2F41839-dracheduhban-the-case-against-him

                      by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 05:24:02 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  If you consider Elizabeth Warren an extremist (2+ / 0-)

          Then Dwight Eisenhower would have been far out in left field (Google Republican Platform, 1956 - quite a bit to the left of today's coporate Dems economically and the equal in terms of racial policy- gays weren't on the radar screen in those days), and FDR and Lyndon Johnson you would consider to be Trotskyites.

          •  bloody hell (0+ / 0-)

            let me make this perfectly clear

            I did not call Elizabeth Warren an extremist. What is written in that comment is that some would consider her an extremist in relation to her views.

            That's it there's nothing more in that comment. Trying to divine my position on Elizabeth Warren is not only silly it's foolish.

            The discussion was not about my personal opinions but about what the democratic party as a whole might think.

            Good gods stop assuming

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 02:49:54 PM PST

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    •  did you just pull that out of your --- ? (0+ / 0-)

      or do you have specific citations and links?

      Name names, if you have the goods.

      “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

      by ozsea1 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 09:10:09 PM PST

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    •  Have you heard of (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      caul, gjohnsit, NoMoreLies, Johnny Q

      reality?

      The TP won some 30+ seats.  How is that costing the repub party?

      BO has been completely coopted by the repubs with the help of the TPs.  How is that costing the repub party?

      The dems have been on defense on a number of issues, both nationally and locally.  How is that costing the repub party?

      Everyone keeps deriding the TPs.  The dems need to face up to how successful they were.  And they may very well not be as shortlived as everyone on this site likes to gloat.  

      Show me some numbers, duhban, that show the dems way ahead of repubs.  

      Your head is as far away as that diarist who used some sort of pretzel logic, the kind we deride repubs for using, and claimed that being neck to neck with a repub really isn't all that bad.

      The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 09:26:20 PM PST

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      •  Akin. O'Donnell. Mourdock. Lowden. Miller. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban, HudsonValleyMark

        There's at least five Senate races who with sensible candidates would have been a near lock for the Republicans.

        The Tea Party candidates are winning in already Republican districts, and showing how gerrymandering is forcing Republicans ever to the right. What Tea Party candidates aren't doing is winning competitive races against strong Democratic candidates. (When most of your 30+ Tea Party congresscritters are coming from the South, that's kind of a clue.)

        •  And I forgot Ken Buck from CO. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HudsonValleyMark

          Another candidate who flamed out in what should have been a "gimme" for Republicans.

        •  I guess the point is... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q, dfarrah

          that we shouldn't be in this position at all. We don't define ourselves clearly, we don't attack, and we lack a coherent narrative.  Yes, some of the TP candidates are so scary that they toss the election. That doesn't make up for the fact that the GOP holds unpopular, minority positions on nearly every issue, and yet they still win.  That's the point of the diary, and that's a fair critique of the Democrats.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 08:12:17 AM PST

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      •  I could teach you a class (0+ / 0-)

        and it wouldn't matter.

        You go do as you wish as Kos said earlier today I prefer to work constructively. Clearly you do not and clearly this conversation is not worth continuing.

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 10:17:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Also, government shutdown. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stude Dude, serendipityisabitch

        A huge Republican meltdown, created by the Tea Party — and now they're angry that the Republicans didn't stand tall on the debt ceiling.

        The facts aren't all on one side of this argument, either yours or duhban's.

        "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

        by HudsonValleyMark on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 04:07:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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