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  •  unfortunately it will never be perfect, there will (2+ / 0-)
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    KVoimakas, Joy of Fishes

    always be idjits.....However the per capita death and injury rates are way down from their highs and heading lower...

    Last year there were the fewest cops shot since 1889 or in that time frame.

    Hunting "accidents" at way way down due to hunter education problems, "accidental discharge" injuries and deaths are way down too.  (scare quotes due to my personal belief that there are no accidental discharges, there is a negligent discharge or a mechanical malfunction like a such thing as an accident with a firearm if you use your noodle and follow the 4 rules religiously)

    But just like there will always be drunk drivers, there will always be an idjit somewhere in this huge country of 330 million people doing the stupidest possible thing you can think of at any given moment.........And we just can't stop all danger and still have a free and open society.

    The old saw that Freedom is messy and on occasion dangerous is very true imo....I'll take it though over the pervasive Orwellian surveillance state so many "developed" nations are devolving into, us included (we must keep fighting it imo or the experiment is over) and worst current examples being England/Singapore .....

    Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
    I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
    Emiliano Zapata

    by buddabelly on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 05:42:22 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  buddabelly ... (1+ / 0-)
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      ... briefly because I'm very tired ... First tho, I want you to know I greatly appreciate your responses.  

      I agree that there are no accidental discharges.  Slamfire sounds like a defective design issue (& apparently guns do kill people after all).

      So, we should just throw up our hands and accept letting idjits have guns as the price of freedom?  Surely we can do better than that.  Prosecuting negligent discharges would be a good start.

      •  Actually a true slamfire is a ammunition defect, a (1+ / 0-)
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        primer that sits too high will be impacted by the bolt on closing in a semi auto like a Garand, the most slamfireingest rifle ever....A huge heavy bolt slamming down on a cartridge where the primer didn't quite seat correctly, firing pin impacts high primer and allows the cartridge to fire out of battery (the bolt is unlocked and still open) which sometimes blows up the rifle but usually doesn't hurt anyone....

        If a person is following the 4 rules, their weapon is pointed in a safe direction when that or anything odd happens so the discharge hurts no one....a while back I had a rifle that fired on closing the problem (well it scared the hell out of me but otherwise) as I had it safely pointed downrange....same happened to my brother recently and he put a neat little .22 caliber hole in the floor....rifle safely pointed away from anything that could be damaged.

        They are mechanical devices and they wear and break...Actual design flaws are rare though Remington did have a safety/trigger group problem years ago....mainly because there really hasn't been much advance in the technology in the last 100 years or so....The pistol I carry most days was accepted for use by the US Army 103 years ago....I have 4-5 rifles that are 100 or more or very close and all work perfectly.  But not taken care of and wear/corrosion can cause all kinds of problems....

        I think that when people do something stupid, they should face the consequences but I don't think prior restraint has a place in a free society.  We have the ability to do good and is up to us which we choose.....

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 11:51:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  hmmm, you say prior restraint; ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... I say design the licensing requirement to ensure that licensees understand safe gun handling practices, prevent giving licenses to people who have criminal histories, etc.  I don't have all this in my head, but you get the gist.  I'd support a national license to carry, provided its requirements are functionally equivalent to those that are in place for the stricter states.  

          And once a person has a license to carry, negligent discharge of a gun, brandishing, etc. would be cause for suspension of license in addition to whatever other penalties are appropriate.  

          More questions, if I may - there is clearly a spectrum of gun owners, and we all too often lump all gun owners together when we talk about gun stuff.  I think it would be helpful to differentiate when the distinction is important, for example, when we are talking about competence.  I also know that the words we choose are important.  Is it actually ok to call the irresponsible gun owners "idjits"?  Do you prefer something else?  And what term do you use for people like yourself who clearly take the responsibilities that come with carrying a gun very seriously?  

          •  The strictest state doesn't issue carry licenses. (0+ / 0-)

            So why would we want to abide by that?

            •  I misread you comment on first pass. (0+ / 0-)

              I am still dense, but not for the reason I thought.

              No carry in the strictest state?  This sounds good to me, being completely honest here.  But I didn't know there was still a state that did not allow open or concealed carry, and this changes what I had thought was a fairly reasonable desire for a national carry license.  Which state is this?

              •  Hawaii. They have "may" issue concealed (0+ / 0-)

                carry but their "may" translates into "no permits issued." It's been that way for years. Since they have the laws on the books, they won't run into the same issue Illinois did. They just refuse to issue permits under said law. This is one of the many problems with "may" issue carry laws.

      •  and a synopsis of the 4 rules just in case none of (1+ / 0-)
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        us ever bothered to link them for you.


        1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

        2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

        3.  Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

        4.  Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.
        If everyone followed these rules at all times, there would be no "accidental" firearms injuries......

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 12:41:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  These rules are why I had conclude that ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... there are no gun accidents.  And yet we say "accident" all the time.  In David W's gunfail diary, the descriptions of 29 of the 38 incidents use "accident."  Say what?  Why don't :insert respectful term for responsible gun owners, no snark: yell from the roof tops that there are no gun "accidents"?  

          •  you mean we haven't? (1+ / 0-)
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            Joy of Fishes

            I started calling them negligent years ago.

            •  Yo, KV. (1+ / 0-)
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              I certainly don't read every gun-related diary or comment, so I have missed this as a common theme for the RKBA folk.  Or maybe another instance where I've been dense.  (That's the next comment, so look for it.)  Say "No such thing as gun accidents" it more often.  Make it part of you sig & group boilerplate.  Repub if this has already been diaried or write a new diary.

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