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View Diary: Top Comments: Lighten up, Francis edition (82 comments)

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  •  My first thought (11+ / 0-)

    was about this:

    Damon Linker appears to think that a religion with a lax attitude may not be worth attending.
    A lax attitude toward what in particular?  

    My experience with religious conservatives is that they're very strict in their judgments around sex, but often have a "lax attitude" about greed.  (Usual caveats apply as that's a rather broad generalization.)  Jesus, of course, was  the other way around.

    One thing I did appreciate about Pope Francis was that he suspended a bishop for living a greedy, lavish lifestyle.  If the US bishops spent half the energy addressing the sins of Wall Street as they do on people's reproductive choices, it might make a concrete moral difference in the world.

    I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll. - Edna St. Vincent Millay

    by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:33:40 PM PST

    •  I totally agree. I have found most of the (8+ / 0-)

      Roman Catholic parishes I have attended over the years to be EXTREMELY lax about music and liturgy, something that would get both the priest and the choirmaster fired in even the tiniest of Episcopal parishes.

      I had this conversation with someone in another diary the other day, who asserted that they had "respect" for Biblical literalists because at least they weren't "frauds".

      The fact of the matter is that not all Christians have the same religious values, views or theology and as far as I am concerned, I can tolerate and even embrace that as long as I have the freedom to--as they used to say in the Yellow Pages in the church listings--"attend the church of my choice".

      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

      by commonmass on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:38:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even the "literalists" are guilty of (7+ / 0-)

        interpretation.  And, in fact, by insisting on the literal truth of the Bible, they are (a) falling into a fallacy that even the ancients did not commit, and (b) using the Bible to shore up their own prejudices.  This deserves respect?

        -5.13,-5.64; GOP thinking: A 13 year path to citizenship is too easy, and a 5 minute background check is too burdensome. -- 1audreyrenee

        by gizmo59 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:46:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Apparently. Look, (7+ / 0-)

          It took hundreds of years to form the Western Canon which we now know as "The Bible" as Christians, and even then, we still argue about the Apocrypha. Frankly, I come--as you do--from a tradition which is actually up front about that. You probably learned in CCD or wherever that it's "Scripture and Tradition". Tradition has a lot to do with it, and frankly, I think is a better place to look if one is interested in how catholic Christianity developed. As Anglicans, we look to "Scripture, Tradition, and REASON".

          I'm down with that.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 07:54:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  For Catholics, (5+ / 0-)

            the Bible is not as central to their theology as it is for most Protestants, and Evangelicals in particular.  There is plenty of Church doctrine that has nothing at all to do with the Bible, and this was one of the reasons for the Reformation.  We have Gutenberg to thank for that, since it was after the printing press made Bibles available to a literate public that the laity could see for itself how much of Church doctrine had nothing to do with the Bible.  While the Protestants made some good points (within the realm of Christian doctrine and theology, which I no longer take seriously on my own account), some of them went more than a little too far, wandering well beyond the bounds of reason.

            -5.13,-5.64; GOP thinking: A 13 year path to citizenship is too easy, and a 5 minute background check is too burdensome. -- 1audreyrenee

            by gizmo59 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:22:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are correct, and not correct: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gizmo59, high uintas, Puddytat

              In churches with pericopes and three-year lectionaries, like the RC church today, you'll actually hear more of the Bible if you go to church every Sunday than you will in evangelical churches. The central role of the Bible is different in emphasis, but not in scope.

              Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

              by commonmass on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 08:33:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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