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View Diary: I can Kill you if I want to (266 comments)

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  •  Konan (7+ / 0-)

    I know 3 folks who carry a gun in Seattle. I am aware a person has the right to have and carry a gun. This fact does
    not justify what happened, I am sad if we have a nation
    of the wild west. The folks I know who carry guns,tell me they
    only carry it if their working, They are very careful to put the
    gun in a safe place when they don"t need it. A policeman
    north of Seattle left his loaded gun in the glove box when he and his wife got out of the car for a moment, He left his two
    small children in the car, The 4 year old son,gets the gun
    and killed his  7 year old sister.
    I am not saying this story fits here,but  when guns are everywhere,more people die for no reason at all.

    Social activist, nutrition and exercise advice,long distance runner, Writer.

    by Vet63 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 12:44:15 PM PST

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    •  I agree with you on several points. (4+ / 0-)

      I am not nor have I ever been defending Dunn (for example).  If someone uses a gun in an illegal manner they should be punished for it.

      I am a firm beliver in gun safety.  The policeman in your example was wrong to leave a loaded gun within reach of children.  Wrong and stupid.  And it saddens me that a child lost her life over that.  It should never have happened.  But it is not the guns nor the 4 year olds fault.  It was the fathers (and maybe the mothers but I don't know the facts so I cannot say).

      I think we agree on several points.  And thank you for your service to the country. (I say that based on your name here.)

      •  Um, the policeman in question ... (11+ / 0-)

        ... shot a man in a Pasco county movie theater who came at him with a bucket of popcorn. Really deadly weapon, that.

        When you carry a spare tire, you are prepared for the possibility that you will have to change a tire. When you carry a first aid kit, you are prepared for the possibility that you might injure yourself in a minor way. When you carry a gun, you are preparing to shoot someone!

        You can't get around that, or blow it off, or minimize it, or say it will never happen. When you carry a gun to "be prepared," the eventuality you are preparing for is shooting someone.

        I have walked this earth for 53 years in big cities and small towns, in upscale subdivisions and the south side of Chicago, and I have never felt endangered, never felt that perhaps I should have a gun to "be prepared" for someone attacking me. And this is key — I keep my eyes peeled for potentially dangerous situations and places, and take steps to avoid them.

        That's what unarmed people tend to do — avoid confrontation. It's worked for me. But the common denominator in these incidents is that the people involved in them did not try to avoid confrontation, they walked into it, forced the issue and then shot unarmed people because, they claimed, they were afraid for their lives. A gun gives you a feeling of power, and an attitude that no one's going to mess with you or you will blow them the fuck away. And when you walk around with that attitude — when you are "prepared" for the possibility that any person who confronts you represents a mortal danger to you, someone will die. If the other person is unarmed, you will shoot them. If the other person is armed, it's a crap shoot.

        Guns do not make you safe, they make you dangerous to yourself and others. I saw a TV program where a cop was looking for a suspect in a dark field, gun drawn and in down ready position. She almost stepped on the guy before she saw him. She pointed her gun at him and ordered him up. Because of the darkness and his position, she didn't see the gun he was holding until he turned and fired. Fortunately, she was wearing a ballistic vest, was able to return fire, and killed him. Had she not been wearing the vest, she would have been killed.

        Where am I going with that story? Two places. First, she was armed, ready, "prepared," if you will, and got shot anyway. If someone is determined to do you harm, they will do you harm. But my second point is this: She was in that position because it was her job to be there. It's not my job, or yours, to apprehend the bad guys.

        George Zimmerman was asked by a police dispatcher to stay put. He disregarded the request, put himself in harms way, and an unarmed kid who had broken no law is dead.

        Michael Dunn could have put up with loud rap music for the couple of minutes or so his wife was in the store, driven away and that would have been the end of it. But he had a gun, and so was "prepared" for a confrontation. A confrontation ensued, and a kid who had broken no law is dead.

        Curtis Reeves happened to be sitting in a movie theater behind a guy whose wife asked him to text the babysitter before the movie started to make sure his young daughter was okay. Discourteous, yes. But illegal? No. Reeves could have ignored him, or, if he was really bothered by it, moved to another seat. But he had a gun, and so was "prepared" for a confrontation. A confrontation ensued, and a man who might have gone to jail for simple assault is, instead, dead.

        Make no mistake. When you tell me you carry a gun to be "prepared" for trouble, you are telling me you are "prepared" to shoot someone. You will feel no need to avoid confrontation. You will feel no need to avoid areas where you might become a mark for an opportunistic criminal. You will go wherever you damn well please, because you are "prepared."

        I stand by what I said above. All three of the men I described were "responsible gun owners" right up until the moment they pulled the trigger and needlessly snuffed out three lives. But hey, give them a break — at least they were "prepared."

        I vote we run Rick Scott out of Florida on a high-speed rail.

        by ObamOcala on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 01:59:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course I am (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vet63, KVoimakas, Joy of Fishes, Konan

          prepared to shoot someone. However, like virtually all people who carry I REALLY hope I never have to. I'd have to live with having taken someone's life. I'd have to deal with the legal system which has proven it's not always 100% "just", etc...  It would suck really really bad. The only thing worse would be not doing it and me or someone I care about being hurt.

        •  ObamaOcala (4+ / 0-)

          Your message is powerful. You describe what these two
          men who killed  with great insight, These men were on a
          power trip. I knew some guys in Vietnam who loved killing,
          They were killing for the fun of it. These two people  enjoyed
          killing. The "rush" is what they craved.
          Thanks again for this piece. This is not a message,its a
          diary. Thank you for taking so much of your time.
          Mike

          Social activist, nutrition and exercise advice,long distance runner, Writer.

          by Vet63 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 02:33:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  A related point - concealed or open carry (5+ / 0-)

          includes a desire to have immediate access to a threat of deadly force as a means to influence the behavior of others (others = people or animals).

          I grew up with guns, and also had small arms training in the military. I currently live in NYC unarmed, but if I were to find myself in some future chapter of my life living in upstate NY, or Montana, or Idaho, I would probably own and sometimes carry arms for personal defense.

          You are spot on that if I choose to own/carry, I'm also choosing to carry the increased risk of causing my own death by a gun, the increased risk of causing someone I know to be killed with my gun, and increased risk of becoming a crime victim if/when someone tries to steal my gun(s).

          What seldom gets acknowledged is that if I choose to carry, I'm also choosing a heightened risk of shattering my own life and the lives of many others if I ever have a moment of confusion mixed with fear, poor judgment mixed with fear, or just plain poor impulse control.

          "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

          by LilithGardener on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 02:52:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  LilithGardener (3+ / 0-)

            I read the Harvard study sent to me by a fellow diarist.
            Violence goes up,when you own a gun, Your thinking about
            what could happen is something I bet Mr.Dunn wishes he had
            done. A simple trip to a store, puts him in jail for life,and
            ends a  magical childs life,
            Thanks for writting,
            Mike

            Social activist, nutrition and exercise advice,long distance runner, Writer.

            by Vet63 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 03:03:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Follow along please. (0+ / 0-)

          The policeman we are talking about is the one Vet mentioned where his (the policeman's) gun sadly killed a 7 year old girl.  That is what I was replying to.

          When a reasonable and certified person carries a gun, they may be prepared to shoot someone, but I submit they are not preparing to shoot someone.  There is a huge difference there.

          As for the TV program you saw, I doubt the truth to it.  Police are not dumb and generally don't go walking around in the dark looking for someone.  I know police officers.  I have worked with them.  Your description of events is not in line with training I've heard of.  So yeah... not everything on TV is real.

          I never said it was my duty "apprehend the bad guys".  So that comment is not valid and there is no need for me to address it.

          I also said - over and over - that I am not defending Dunn, Reeves, or Zimmerman.  If someone breaks the law, they should be held accountable.  

          You say "You will feel no need to avoid confrontation."  I disagree.  I think it is different for each person.  To make a statement like that which applies to everyone is reckless in my opinion.

          I think it's not a stretch to say that most people who conceal carry do not want to go to trial, spend Lord knows how much money, and possibly go to jail.  

      •  Konan (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        I agree with your every word,thanks for your kind words!
        Mike

        Social activist, nutrition and exercise advice,long distance runner, Writer.

        by Vet63 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 02:19:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I did a diary on loaded gun storage. (2+ / 0-)

      I think it works here

      A RFID, biometric, GPS lock box for loaded guns on bedside stands or in glove boxes.

      Now they have the 2nd (safety net for sloppy) Amendment, and can't be infringed to actually treat their gun like a gun and not a video game controller.

      by 88kathy on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 01:37:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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