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View Diary: So When Will Calls for UN, or US, Military Intervention in Ukraine Begin? (86 comments)

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  •  There is a great deal which can be compared (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, protectspice

    regarding how the situation in Syria began three years ago, as I stated above, and what is happening in Ukraine now.

    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 11:29:52 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Except a leader that is willing to do anything (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BelgianBastard, cryonaut, ChadmanFL

      Yanukovych is not even close to Assad in terms of what he's willing to do to stay in control.

      "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

      by Texas Lefty on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 11:36:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And we also need to see what the opposition (0+ / 0-)

        in Ukraine is willing to do in order to overthrow him and his government.

        If the opposition turns into an armed insurrection, possibly even supported and supplied but other countries, how do you think events will develop?

        Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

        by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 11:41:21 AM PST

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        •  Who is going to give them arms? nt (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          InAntalya, BelgianBastard, ChadmanFL

          "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

          by Texas Lefty on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 11:46:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  People and countries with their own agendas. n/t (0+ / 0-)

            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

            by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 11:54:02 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Who though? (1+ / 0-)
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              ChadmanFL

              Who are the countries who would supply the opposition with arms?

              "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

              by Texas Lefty on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 02:42:32 PM PST

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              •  Just off the top of my head, (0+ / 0-)

                countries and groups who have animosity towards the Russian government and have been involved in some sort of international 'adventure' - some by supplying money and arms to groups they support and some by being involved in terrorism and/or insurrections:

                The US
                France
                Saudi Arabia
                Qatar
                Georgia
                al-Qaeda
                the Syrian Opposition
                the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood
                various Chechen groups
                various Libyan groups
                the Taliban

                Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 03:09:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Off the top of your head? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ChadmanFL

                  Those groups on the bottom of the list are actively involved in their own conflicts and really don't have the surplus of arms or the logistics to supply large amounts of arms to the opposition in Ukraine.  I also don't think the Ukrainian opposition wants to deal with Islamic fanatics, just as Islamic fanatics don't want to deal with orthodox Christian Ukrainians.  

                  There is very little chance that the US or France would supply the opposition with any weapons whatsoever, unless they wanted another civil war in Europe. If history is any indicator, the US and France would try to impose a UN arms embargo on Ukraine, like they did with the former Yugoslavia, rather than supply them with arms.

                  So we're left with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Georgia and none of them would send arms to Europe without the support of the US and EU, which of course isn't going to happen because they don't want a civil war in Europe.  

                  "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

                  by Texas Lefty on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 04:16:36 PM PST

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          •  No one. nt (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cryonaut, Texas Lefty, ChadmanFL

            Syria was involved in the whole Sunni and Saudi versus Shia and Iranian struggle for dominance in the Middle East.

            Relations between Russia, the EU and the US are very different.

            I ride the wild horse .

            by BelgianBastard on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 12:12:22 PM PST

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            •  So, in your opinion, there are no groups (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              limpidglass, AoT

              or countries who would like to cause difficulties for the Ukainian government or, more importantly, for the Russian government?

              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 12:16:39 PM PST

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              •  Split western support (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                InAntalya, Texas Lefty, ChadmanFL

                for the opposition-Check

                National control in Soviet friendly hands, with regional Russian interest in supporting the existing gov't?

                Check.

              •  No countries that will risk a war in Europe... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Texas Lefty, ChadmanFL

                by surreptitiously arming rebels in Ukraine, no.

                If the US and EU didn't get involved defending the democratically elected government of Georgia, they are not going to arm a bunch of rag tag rebels in Ukraine. No one else really cares about the opposition or their human rights.

                As for groups... the are groups that want any particular thing; an Aryan US, a Europe 'free' of Muslims, a worldwide Caliphate. So what?  Wanting something and being able to do anything about it are two very different things.

                I ride the wild horse .

                by BelgianBastard on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 01:09:14 PM PST

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                •  I very clearly remember statements a while back (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  whizdom, svboston

                  such as:

                  'No one would risk starting a war in Syria. It would destabilize the Middle East, especially Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq, and maybe even cause another Israeli war.'
                  If I had asked you three years ago 'Do you think it's possible that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey will help an al-Qaeda force of more than 20,000 to be formed in Syria and Iraq?' what would you have said?

                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 01:23:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Still no castrated middle schooler. (0+ / 0-)

      The Syrian crisis began when the regime abducted, castrated, and killed a 13 year old boy.

      Thankfully, I can point out that Yanukovich is not that stupid.

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