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View Diary: Guns and Property: A Journey Through the Looking Glass (32 comments)

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  •  You'll note that I've never used the word "only." (2+ / 0-)

    And the question still remains, what could/would/might be the actual, real-world, practical, measurable, observable, plausible result of that shift in "perception"?
    If it's true that nothing more than "perception" is at stake -- which is kind of what I've been saying all along -- then the magnitude of the objection is disproportionate to its object.

    Marriage exclusivists make the same argument, viz., that equality threatens or undermines the "perception" of What Marriage Is™ and What Marriage Is For™, even though it cannot be shown that anything bad will actually happen as a result of equality. It reflects only a desire to think about things a certain way, and to feel a certain way about things.

    You said yourself that the objection here is not to the idea, but to who is presenting it. Is that all it really comes down to? Mutual distrust? A presumption of evil intent?

    An idea (like, say, an individual mandate for health insurance) has merit if it comes from someone we trust (like, say, the Heritage Foundation), but doesn't have merit -- even though it's the same idea -- if it comes from someone we don't trust (like, say, a Democratic president)?

    I don't mean to open up new cans of crawling vermicular life forms here. You pointed out to me in an earlier threat that we'd probably never see eye-to-eye on this issue, or even be able to discuss it intelligently, because of that mutual distrust. Maybe we can make some progress if we're willing to let go of that for a while. Maybe we've already begun.

    [PS. Thanks again for the ideas. :)]

    •  All other "rights" are only Rights ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      i saw an old tree today

      which can be "infringed" ... limited as to "time, place, and manner" of their exercise -- or significantly set aside when something like "national security" can be appealed to.  Vide: the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798) and the PATRIOT ACT (2001).

      The Second Amendment is a Sacred Sacrament, signifying onto us the Covenant between  Jehovah and Jefferson ... and one deeply engaged with our sense of Self, Citizenship, and indeed of Our Manhood, itself.

      We can have any "conversation" we like ... but if the result is a suggestion that this sacred right to  centerfire self expression is  any way curtailed, or additional responsibilities or inconveniences of any kind  be laid on "responsible law abiding gun owners"  (Real Men and Patriots, all) -- well, that's a political no-starter that will only cost moderate Democrats seats on election day.

      •  What "additional responsibilities or (2+ / 0-)

        inconveniences" are we talking about? That's the question the diary asks.

        If property rights in firearms "shall not be infringed," what shall be infringed? And how?

        •  apparently manhood (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharon Wraight

          The Second Amendment is a Sacred Sacrament, signifying onto us the Covenant between  Jehovah and Jefferson ... and one deeply engaged with our sense of Self, Citizenship, and indeed of Our Manhood, itself.

        •  ANY "inconveniences" ANY responsibilities (2+ / 0-)

          They are all "infringements"  (as defined by Webster's Collegiate Dictionary ) of the Sacred Second.

          I, for example, would like to see  Ted Kennedy's "National Buyer's Permit"  idea enacted.  Following a   1-time background check,  a buyer's license would allow the holder to buy and sell weapons without further fuss  or waiting period ... However,  each "casual sale" would have to be recorded in a "bound book", inspectable once a year, just like a licensed gun shop does ... and the seller would have to copy the buyer's buyer's license information, or conduct the federally mandated background check.  

          Also  I think firearms should be "titled" like automobiles ... the weapon should be back-trackable from the crime scene where it is found to the retailer who sold it to the responsible law abiding gun owner, who somehow lost track of this valuable piece of property, but didn't bother to report the loss to State, much less National police.

          But these are INFRINGEMENTS ... worse, they can, could and would be used to create a searchable data base of who bought and sold which weapons when ...  so Guvmint Gun Grabbers can come break down their doors and take their property -- y'know like they are supposed to have done "In  England and Australia" ...

          And if one is fantasizing  about rising up against a Government Grown Tyrannical ... that data base would be a horrific source of anxiety, and possibly  actual inconvenience -- if for example a FISA-ordered wiretap indicated that this particular Nat Turner Diaries fantasist had a circle of friends whose ideas of 10th Amendment Rights included the armed overthrow of the LOCAL government ( never a violation of the Smith Act, heaven forfend !) -- as sometimes did happen during Reconstruction.  (And at the Branch Davidian compound)

          But why talk about it ?

          The situation realpolitik  is

          MY guns  MY Junk  Don't YOU touch them, dude !
          .               and
          We Wants It Precious !

          We know where the NRA and its RW support base stand ... and now, apparently there is handful of soi-dissant Progressives who have embraced the NRA agenda as well ...

          Therefore voting for Gun Grabbing  just costs Democrats swing state elections.

          So we just ought to just STFU on this issue, because there's no good-faith partner with which to negotiate on this Uniquely Sacred Right handed down to THEFOUNDINGFATHERS, by GAWDHIMSELF.

          Y'know:  Pigs and singing lessons.

      •  is that snark? I think so, but I want to be sure (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        i saw an old tree today

        before rec'ing. :-)

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