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View Diary: Fox News brings on 1990s Bill Clinton accuser to declare Hillary 'is the war on women' (219 comments)

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  •  That's a fair point. (10+ / 0-)

    Let me be clear, though: I'd crawl through shards of glass to vote for Hillary to prevent a Rubio or Cruz or Paul or Ryan presidency.

    I just think we can nominate a superior candidate who will have as good a chance -- if not better -- as Hillary at keeping the White House in our hands in 2016.

    Hillary is not a good politician. She proved that abundantly in 2008. What makes you think she's improved since?

    We can do better.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 07:50:23 AM PST

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    •  Ditto (6+ / 0-)
      Let me be clear, though: I'd crawl through shards of glass to vote for Hillary to prevent a Rubio or Cruz or Paul or Ryan presidency.
      •  Me, too. And we need not forget this. (7+ / 0-)

        The louder the GOPers scream "blue dress", the more we know they have nothing and we have them with their hands empty.

        That being said, I will vote for Clinton, but if Warren runs, I will vote for Warren first in the primaries.

        GOTV. Vote a whole Democratic Ticket. Drive your neighbours to polling places. Canvas. Talk. Persuade.

        Who are they we need to convince?

        Women, People of Colour, Milennials, Seniors...

        Don't bother with the GOP/TPer memes.


        Ugh. --UB.

        "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

        by unclebucky on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:25:11 AM PST

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    •  I wish you- and others who share your (6+ / 0-)

      views on Hillary- would please offer your own candidate when you make comments rejecting her.  It isn't enough to say "I think we can nominate a superior candidate, etc…" and then fail to say who that might be.  Name names please.  If she is going to have opposition, those candidates need to become visible and work for support.

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:04:17 AM PST

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      •  Okay. (7+ / 0-)

        Kirsten Gillibrand. Martin O'Malley. Sherrod Brown.

        I don't think Elizabeth Warren is running, but I wish she would.

        How about Deval Patrick?

        I think we'll have good candidates, and I'm no doubt forgetting names.

        Please don't misunderstand me: If Hillary is our nominee, she will have my vote and full support.

        I just think we can do better.

        How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

        by BenderRodriguez on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:08:19 AM PST

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        •  Thank you! (5+ / 0-)

          I'm not sure any of these have shown interest in running, but perhaps if they were encouraged by the netroots they might be more inclined.  I am supporting Hillary, but I think we need a real primary.  

          It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

          by Radiowalla on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:12:50 AM PST

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          •  Other than Martin O'Malley (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dr Swig Mcjigger, Penny GC, sharman

            none of them have expressed any interest whatsoever.

            Furthermore I'm not even sure that outside of Warren any of them will get above single digits in the primaries.  Most are too young with limited experience.  Deval Patrick?  It would be another 8 years of Barack Obama from the GOP race baiting to the policies.  Gillebrand is still very green and would never be take seriously as anything other than a VP candidate.  Brown had a tough fight with the uber weasel John Mandel in Ohio.  I don't even know if O'Malley has the name recognition to get out of single digits.

            Outside of Warren our options amount to barely better than Kucinich in terms of electability.  

            This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

            by DisNoir36 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:18:27 AM PST

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            •  My memory's cloudy (0+ / 0-)

              I may be misremembering, but didn't Obama also "express no interest whatsoever?"

              Sidenote: Is there really nothing we can do to convince Warren to run?

              God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

              by Eagles92 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:30:11 AM PST

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            •  But I want to talk issues and how do we do that (5+ / 0-)

              if we just have this coronation.  I really want to know where Hillary is on the big economic issues.  I know where is on Roe v Wade.  Where is she on Social Security and trade agreements, labor, Wall Street.  I mean I FEAR I already know but she could convince me otherwise.  I could be MORE enthusiastic about supporting her if I felt she was on my side.  

              I feel she's on the side of the lobbies shoveling money at her for the next war.   Again, I could be wrong but I don't know how you get that idea out of my mind if she doesn't have to address progressive issues.

              If she doesn't address progressive issues in the primaries, they won't be addressed at all.  

              It's just going to be a debate over how many wars we're going to have with Republicans cheering for war with N Korea and Hillary cheering for war with Iran or whatever and both rallying behind austerity budgets on everything else.

              •  How about focusing instead (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bill W, Dr Swig Mcjigger, cassandraX

                on Senate and House races.  If you feel as many do that this is a coronation.  

                This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

                by DisNoir36 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 09:13:43 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And focus on the ones this year. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Dr Swig Mcjigger, bluemeanies, carrps

                  Right now, I'm satisfied if Clinton is our nominee, since I think she has the best chance of winning and I'm okay with most of her positions.  But, I'd certainly be open to a more progressive candidate if I'm convinced that candidate can win the general election. And the best way to convince me is to show me a progressive populist wave impacting this year's elections. That would impress me greatly.  But if this year's is another status quo election, I'm a lot more inclined to play it safe in '16.

              •  You keep making the accusation (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                That Clinton supports war with Iran, but where is your evidence?

              •  I don't think you really want that (0+ / 0-)

                Your language gives you away.

              •  You're doing a fine job... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                ...discussing those issues.  And her potential candidacy should not deter you from discussing those issues.

                And I agree, I'd love to see a vigorous Democratic Primary.  I do not think that Clinton, if she decides to run, should run unopposed.

                But neither Fox nor Chris Matthews will be determing my reasons for either supporting or not supporting Hillary Clinton.  I know enough about her wrt what they will want to talk about to tune them out.

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 09:58:21 AM PST

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              •  Hillary was ranked more progressive than Obama (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ga6thDem, sharman, carrps

                ...when they were senators.


                Here's an old post from 2008 at Talk Left on this issue:


                And people who do not think Hillary Clinton is more progressive than Bill Clinton need to learn more about her. Read Carl Bernstein's biography of her. It's pretty illuminating.

                Unfortunately, a lot of people who identify as progressives--and I am one--have views of Hillary tainted by the right's negative attacks and the negative attacks of the Obama campaign in 08.

                Do some research on her positions on the issues and you'll feel much better about supporting her.

                "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

                by cassandraX on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 10:48:47 AM PST

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        •  Sherrod Brown (3+ / 0-)

          could win

      •  Russ Feingold? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TKO333, Penny GC


    •  I don't (6+ / 0-)

      know where you get this she was a bad politician. She won a lot of primaries and got 1/2 of the votes of the party. She got the coveted working class white voters that everybody is talking about now but wasn't too keen on back then.

      She got stronger as the primaries went on while Obama started to sag.

      Who is this superior candidate? I certainly can think of none right now.

      And don't say Elizabeth Warren because she would not win a presidential election the way things are right now and she also has made it abundantly clear that she is not running.

      It's the policy stupid

      by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:07:31 AM PST

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    •  We like Hillary in New York State (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dr Swig Mcjigger

      We think she's a pretty good politician. She crushed every Republican that went after her up here. And some of us even think she got shafted by Howard Dean and the Democratic establishment in 2008. That's water under the bridge, but still...

      There's no such thing as a moderate Republican.

      by maksutov66 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 08:12:52 AM PST

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    •  How Hillary has improved (as a politician) v. 2008 (3+ / 0-)

      1. The resources of the sitting POTUS will likely be at her disposal
      2. She seems to have picked up some significant foreign policy experience
      3. The experience from 2008 is unlikely to have hurt

      •  Plus, her accomplishments as Secretary (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        of State on global women's issues can't hurt. She changed the narrative on women by championing their social, political and economic rights around the world.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by ssnbbr on Wed Feb 19, 2014 at 02:20:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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