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View Diary: Is That a Gun in Your Hand or Are You Just Trying to Change the Channel? (320 comments)

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  •  Hold your fire until fired upon (19+ / 0-)

    That's the rule in the military.  Do you know how many wars would have been started if everytime a soldier or a fighter pilot got scared he opened fire, because he was convinced the other side was going to shoot?

    NO!  Just fucking NO!  Cowardly cops don't get to shoot the kid answering the door because they're scared to death the bust isn't going to go down easy.

    I really don't give a shit what the officer's state of mind was.  She had no right, AT ALL, to fire on a civilian unless first fired upon.

    If a cop doesn't want to take that risk, they're free to quit the force.  Every trigger happy coward who quits is a victory.

    •  Did you not see the photo (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      posted by annieli up there showing a Wii aftermarket game controller that looks so much like a semiautomatic pistol? So you could immediately tell the difference between the two if you were a cop serving a warrant on someone who has already skipped?

      I'm certainly no fan of cops by any stretch. However, in light of the similarity between the two, I can't fault the police officer for thinking a gun was being pointed at her.

      Can you? Seriously?

      •  It doesn't appear to be a controller; it's an (7+ / 0-)

        auxiliary game piece.

        We don't know what the kid was holding, but if it was in fact a "controller" then it doesn't look a lot like a gun.

        See the discussion elsewhere in the comments.

      •  Thinking it? No. Firing first? Yes (9+ / 0-)

        As I said in another post, serving a warrant on someone who violated parole, they should expect a gun.

        But #1, the article says the kid was getting ready to watch a movie on the WII, and not play a shooting game.  I don't think he was holding the gun look alike.

        #2, the person with the "gun" wasn't the adult suspect they were looking for, but a kid.

        #3, I highly doubt the kid was pointing the WII controller at her like a gun.

        #4, she should have pulled her gun and ordered the kid to drop it, and NOT opened fire.

        I'm not faulting her for thinking it was a gun.  I'm faulting her for committing murder by opening fire without even first trying to disarm the suspect.

      •  You can keep repeating something, but that doesn't (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, Shotput8, ColoTim, nota bene

        make it any truer.

      •  Are you so confused by the picture of the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, ColoTim, kurt, novapsyche

        aftermarket controller that you think that is what the kid was holding?

        You have implied 3 times that this is what the kid was holding.   I can give you 2 mistakes but now you are just trying to confuse the issue.

        •  Some people are like that. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, Shotput8

          Some people simply cannot keep two things separate.

          Some people simply cannot understand the logic behind "If it was a gun look-alike controller then the neighbors would not have been able to tell the difference either. BUT THEY DID TELL THE DIFFERENCE EVEN FROM OUTSIDE THE SCENE, so there is no way that it was what is pictured above".

          Some people WILL be so confused by the picture that they cannot help but think that such a thing is actually logged evidence.

          •  Well I'm flattered (0+ / 0-)

            that you think I could have convinced anyone in this echo chamber that the thing the kid was holding was a gun look-alike. Truly.

            But that is not my intention. I am merely saying that because such a thing exists, there is the POSSIBILITY---not a SURETY---that it could have been confused when the kid opened the door of a home where a dude lives who has skipped probation. As for the neighbors of a dude in a trailer park that has little regard for the law apparently, how is it that you have become such an expert on their character and dismiss what the cops say?

            But don't let my assertion stop you from projecting. My goodness, no.

            •  If this was the case, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chrisculpepper, dconrad

              The police would be shouting it from the rooftops to get the media off of them.

              They are not.


              "But the family's attorney, Cole Law, said the boy was holding a Nintendo Wii video game controller, and was about to watch a movie."

              That's a quote from the article.

              Given that he was reportedly about to watch a movie, it is EXTREMELY unlikely he had one of these aftermarket items on the controller. Having one would make it extremely annoying trying to control a movie.

              The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them. - Albert Einstein.

              by Cvstos on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 08:08:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Here's the problem (0+ / 0-)

        The vast majority of these aftermarket pieces (there are MANY different models) have clear "toy gun" markings, and, to be frank, the market penetration for all but the official Nintendo one is rather low. (And the official Nintendo one doesn't even look like a gun.) In fact, generally speaking, the market penetration for console accessories for everything but things you really do NEED to have to play games on the console in general (see: extra controllers, memory cards in PS1/PS2 era, headsets) tend to be less than 10%. The penetration for this particular one you pointed out is probably something like a couple thousand units, tops, compared with millions upon millions of console sold.

        Also, an awful lot of people that do buy these gun accessories wind up not using them after a couple of tries because the game is easier to control without them. (In fact most of them are easier to control with a dual-analog-stick controller, but I digress.)

        Also, if this kid had one of those, I'd be willing to bet the cops would be saying that all over the place in this case. Wouldn't you?

        "The victim unfortunately answered the door with an aftermarket video game accessory that gave the controller the appearance of a semi-automatic pistol."

        If a line like that appeared anywhere in any of the police statements to the press, I'd be willing to buy your argument.

        No one's said anything of the sort.

        And the kid didn't even have the opportunity to do the right thing. He was in the ROTC. If the officer had OPENED HER MOUTH and said "POLICE!" when the kid ASKED HER WHO WAS THERE, he may well have put the thing down before answering!

        What, do we have to answer our front doors with our hands on our head now?

        No, sorry, nothing about this adds up. When you serve a warrant, YOU IDENTIFY AS POLICE!

        The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them. - Albert Einstein.

        by Cvstos on Fri Feb 21, 2014 at 08:05:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's absolute nonsense... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silvia Nightshade, duhban, Tominator

      If LE had to wait until someone else opened fire, there would be zero point in protection.  

      If there was an armed robbery and the suspects were in a standoff with police, the suspect has to fire off a round or two before LE can open fire?  They have to take the chance that those rounds will hit and kill someone? Wrong- if the suspects refuse to follow LE's lawful orders to put the weapons down, then LE can, and will, open fire first.  

      I don't know what happened here, and my example above is not what happened here, all I know for damn sure is this officer didn't set out to kill some kid that day. I want to understand the situation, I want to know why she was hyped up enough to open fire on a kid answering the door.  Was there a history of violence against LE at this house, was this man (the father) known to carry guns and threaten LE?  Contrary to your opinion, all of that matters...  

      Chances are she will be taken before a Grand Jury and she will have to defend her actions that day in a court of law, and unless she can prove: Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy, she will go to jail- and she should if she can't prove the above...

      The proliferation of guns in this damn country has got to stop... That is first and foremost.   And yes, there are plenty of examples where LE has shot and killed the wrong person, there are also plenty of examples of LE abusing their power and authority, but to  paint every LEO with the same brush is just fucking lazy.

      You can get animals addicted to a harmful substance, you can dissect their brains, but you throw their own feces back at them, and suddenly you're unprofessional. -Amy Farrah Fowler/The Big Bang Theory -7.50, -5.03

      by dawgflyer13 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:48:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  OMG. (14+ / 0-)
        Chances are she will be taken before a Grand Jury and she will have to defend her actions that day in a court of law, and unless she can prove: Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy, she will go to jail- and she should if she can't prove the above...
        You really believe that?  Do you not understand what happens almost inevitably in these cases?  The cop is put on paid leave. The police department does an internal review and concludes that the officer acted within policy.  The DA might or might not do any review whatsoever but if they do will inevitably conclude that the officer "feared for their life" and thus was justified in using deadly force.

        Then the officer will be put back on duty, ready to shoot the next kid.

        •  Exactly. (7+ / 0-)

          A Burlington police officer fatally shot a mentally ill man after being called to his house by the man's mother.

          He was wielding a shovel. Shovels don't look like guns. One of the two responding cops apparently feared for his life, and an internal investigation vindicated him.

          I don't pretend to know or understand the stress endured by law enforcement; nor do I believe they don't genuinely have our best interests at heart. But something about our trigger-happy gun culture has to change, or we'll all be prisoners in our own homes -- afraid to leave for fear of being shot.

          Land of the free my ass.

          God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

          by Eagles92 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 11:22:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  "Chances are..." (0+ / 0-)

          That implies POSSIBILITY but not SURETY. But YOU are SURE that the officer will be put back on duty, "ready to shoot the next kid".

          You have leapt to yet another conclusion that is in no way supported by any evidence in the case so far. Eyewitness neighbors are important, but so is other evidence that has not come forth yet.

          How does it feel to be judge, jury and executioner all the time? It must feel really empowering for you.

          I am really glad that most here on this thread will never be bothered to pull jury duty in my state.

      •  This wasn't a standoff (8+ / 0-)

        First, a crime wasn't in active commission.  Public wasn't in danger, and the guy hadn't locked himself in, refusing to come out.

        if the suspects refuse to follow LE's lawful orders to put the weapons down, then LE can, and will, open fire first.  
        Can you show that the cop even gave an order to the kid to drop the controller before opening fire?  Did the kid scream out "Hell no coppers!" and raise the controller like a gun?  Are you seriously going to blame the victim here?  The kid was "asking for it"?

        There's no evidence this cop did anything but piss herself and murder a child.

        You want to get rid of guns in this country?  Disarm the cops first, then we'll talk.

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