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View Diary: Koch brothers pushing another Obamacare 'horror' story that isn't (176 comments)

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  •  Is this another situation where . . . (11+ / 0-)

    "if you're explaining you're losing?"

    Our problem is that the ACA was well thought out and is complicated and involves math.

    We'll ALWAYS be explaining it!

    "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

    by New Jersey Boy on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 09:23:56 AM PST

    •  They do have emotion and hate (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shoeless, Debby, New Jersey Boy

      On their side. We'll never be able to reason with many of them, but we can prevent their poison from spreading.

      We need to simplify the message - for every one person they bring like this we need to bring 20 who are thrilled with ACA.

      Money should be treated like any other controlled substance; if you can't use it responsibly then you don't get to use it.

      by La Gitane on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:04:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes. And also, this will be less theoretical. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        La Gitane

        When people are enrolled in insurance through the ACA, their personal story will be what drives their opinion, not a story from a T.V. commercial.

        You make an important point about messaging and keeping it simple - for all issues, not only the ACA. The GOP knows how to keep it simple. They just make it simple and false.

        If we could get to simple and true, we'd have the advantage.

        "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

        by New Jersey Boy on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 10:11:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I always hated that meme (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      It's a bit of commonly accepted cant that has no truth and is disseminated with plenty of malice.

      A policy that is so simple it requires no explanation is, on the other hand, virtually assured to be hokum. Building a fence to address illegal immigration would be one example of this genre. But, hey, it sure is simple, isn't it?

    •  As opposed to the pre-Obamacare world, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CFAmick, Tamar, Matt Z, Subterranean

      where health insurance was always so easy to understand?

      I get the political ramifications, but complexity is a given. As others have hinted, single payer is simpler. That's my go-to answer.

      •  All the current problems with the ACA (0+ / 0-)

        would have been avoided if insurance corporations were removed from the equation.  Even a public option would mitigate most of the problems, both real and imagined.

        Obama and the dems brought much of this on themselves by refusing to fight for a public option, enacting a plan that could have been passed by a President Romney.  They're just reaping what they've sown.  I can imagine Obama saying to Michelle "But why are they criticizing it?  I passed their own plan, they should be thanking me!"  

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 12:28:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I guess it's a good thing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          antimony

          that the polling is improving for Obamacare. Few would argue with adding a public option in the near future, and positive response to Obamacare paves the way.

          And I'm pretty sure that President Obama knows two things:

          1. "President" Romney would never sign into US law what he signed in Massachusetts (different base to pander to)
          2. The right has zero interest in giving him any victories

          •  ACA is the vaccine against a public option (0+ / 0-)

            The health insurance industry is more powerful than ever thanks to the mandate.  No fucking way do they permit a public option, at least not in our lifetimes.

            "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

            by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 01:14:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Big insurance is wealthier with Obamacare, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Subterranean

              and thus more powerful. Thankfully, as Obamacare reduces healthcare costs, it will be easier to sway public opinion on the next phase. It's more like a trojan horse than 11-dimensional chess. Pretty simple, really.

              •  You realize that the ACA only passed because (0+ / 0-)

                the health insurance industry agreed not to oppose it, yes?  They will oppose a public option, and they even more funds to do so thanks to the mandate.  

                Congress cannot pass health care legislation without the permission of the health insurance industry.  Same goes for legislation affecting any industry - it will not pass without that industry's approval.

                "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

                by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:23:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Forgot to add, (0+ / 0-)

            Bush passed the medicare prescription drug benefit, written by the pharmaceutical industry, so it's not unrealistic to think that President Romney could have passed legislation written by the health insurance industry.  Seems quite likely, actually.

            "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

            by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 01:16:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There are easier ways (0+ / 0-)

              to benefit the insurance industry.

              •  None better. (0+ / 0-)

                A federal mandate is a dream come true for the health insurance industry.  They even got the federal government to pay for those who can't afford to fulfill the mandate.  Maybe Romney couldn't have achieved that level of subservience, but he would have tried.

                "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

                by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:18:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  There are easier ways than the ACA (0+ / 0-)

              to benefit the insurance industry, but Medicare does play well to the base.

              •  The ACA would play to their base just fine (0+ / 0-)

                Get Fox News and wingnut radio behind it and it would easily have been enacted by Mitt.  The GOP would have embraced it as a free market solution.  It's a perfect fit for their beliefs regarding small government and corporate power.  

                Remember that there wouldn't be any teabaggers had Romney been elected in '08.  The money that established those groups would instead have gone towards pro-GOP propaganda efforts.  

                "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

                by Subterranean on Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:14:36 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Several assumptions there (0+ / 0-)

                  Romney in '08 is a stretch. The right being behind anything close to Obamacare (at the national level) is a big stretch. There was (and is) no up-to-date plan from the right. What appealed to them in the '90s would have zero appeal today. If there were a plan then it would have no effort to reduce healthcare costs, nor would it bother with significant increases in the number insured.

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