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View Diary: Should we amend the US Constitution? Justice Stevens thinks so, incl. 2nd Amendment (new book) (321 comments)

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  •  "Ask not for whom the bell tolls..." (6+ / 0-)
    why does anything but homicide matter?
    Because we are all humans.
    Do you think you have the right to stop another adult from taking their own life if they choose?
    Yes. In maybe 99% of cases (i.e. outside of extreme incurable pain, perhaps as verified by two doctors as in most death-with-dignity laws), then yes, not only the right but the obligation. Most suicides are arguably the result of poor judgment, not seeing other options, clouded thinking, etc. As good samaritans, some might even say we have a duty to rescue.

    We are not libertarians. We care about other people. We are Democrats.

    •  As I said in another diary (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      43north, sviscusi, Kasoru, ypochris

      I'm a pro-choice Democrat. I don't know what kind you are.

      And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

      by high uintas on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 01:39:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and every now and then Sharon (3+ / 0-)

      our "know it all" attitude demonstrates we know nothing at all, and we "take precautions" based on a few mechanical steps.  Far far less messy than really interrupting our important lives and wading into mental instability.

      I see the big picture, this isn't that bad.  Your doctor doesn't think so.  Try the new medications. "You know, you just need to..."
      I was the first, first responder through the door when a teen son of a friend shot himself with dad's handgun, obtained from the locked safe the day before.
      "Mom... I'll move the car for you."

      One of two keys was on her keyring.  She never noticed it was missing, until we asked about it.

      There was no .38 special ammunition in the house.
      He obtained the ammunition from the son of a retired cop, who thought it was "so cool" that he was going to kill himself over a now former girlfriend.

      She'll be like, so fucked-up by this.

      The young man had spoken to his parents.  Spoken to his guidance counsellor after having a yelling match with the girl and her new more awesome than you boyfriend.

      "You're young, there's other girls.  You'll be fine.  We see this as a whole picture, you're too close, it's too new... give it a couple of months."
      When another day, just one more day, of being taunted?
      Was too much.
      * bang *
      .38 special round nose lead to the right temple.
      Dead before he hit the floor.

      Locked-up gun.  Mom and Dad never leave the keys in a drawer, or "hidden" in the jewelry box.

      NO ammunition in the house.  Buy it at the range, leave it at the range.  
      "No chance for accidents, what with the children in the house."

      No real cause for concern.

      Same for the girl, who when 9 weeks pregnant by her now former more awesome than you boyfriend, caught the 8:10 from Grand Central.
      In the face.  
      Tough to know if it was the crushing injuries, or the 700 volts which killed her first.

      I know the hell out of suicide.  Those are just two.

      •  buddabelly thinks that's none of your business. (4+ / 0-)

        I don't agree. I think it's everyone's business.

        We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

        by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 02:46:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is it your business if I stop dialysis (4+ / 0-)

          and kill myself slowly? What if I use a rope? Is it your business only if I use a gun? Any 3 ways, I am still dead and there is mental anguish to go around.

          It's not really about mental illness is it? Or there would be laws preventing me from going off dialysis or you could be a rethuglian (see Texan and FL).

          •  Are you mentally ill? (2+ / 2-)
            Recommended by:
            Sharon Wraight, Old Sailor
            Hidden by:
            43north, cville townie

            I'm only asking because you're asking my opinion of your case.

            We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

            by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 04:28:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What does it matter if I am or not? (4+ / 0-)

              And I'm not.

              But if I get told that I wont ever get a kidney and I will be forever on dialysis- then I may make a choice to not live that way. Dialysis SUCKS!! What business of yours is it how I end it??

              Considering that many of our peer nations that we as progressives look SOOOO much up to consider suicide a human right. Even for children in the case of Belgium.

              So do I have the right to choose? Or do I belong to the state and don't get to make the choice? Tell me.

              •  Oh, I see, you were making all of that up (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Old Sailor, Glen The Plumber, tytalus

                Anything to avoid talking about gun violence eh?

                We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:05:30 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have made extensive comments (4+ / 0-)

                  about my kidney disease. And you have the balls to say that I'm making it all up? Oh how I could wish I could HR you for such a dickish comment. But I expect that from Authoritians- Attack the commenter,

                  Afraid that your authoritian side will show?

                  •  You're confusing the heck out of me. (3+ / 0-)

                    First you talk about your case and I ask a question. Then you say it isn't true but if it was true what business would it be of mine. Now you're saying it's true again and start calling me names.

                    I have no idea who you are and have never read any posts from you other then these. So, I hope the best for you regardless.

                    If you have something to say about end of life care, maybe you should write a diary on it. I'd be happy to comment there.

                    We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                    by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:58:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You had asked if I was mentally ill (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      43north, Joy of Fishes, FrankRose

                      and I stated it did not matter. So back to the question..

                      If I am told I will not get a transplant, I may very well choose to end life. Either by stopping dialysis, gun or some other manner. What business is it of your how I do it? Or are you only concerned if I use a gun?

                      •  To be clear.... (3+ / 0-)

                        As I understand you now, you are not facing that question. But you might given your current condition. Got it.

                        I hope you don't face that question, and I hope you consult with health care professionals when going through the process if you do. My opinion is that end of life care and decisions need to be addressed in the United States to shift from lengthening life at any cost (in dollars or quality) to focus on quality and the sound wishes of the patient.

                        So everyone, not just you, should make their wishes known through an Advance Health Care Directive while they are legally able.

                        None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand, and my advice is the same as I posted above... if this is a topic that moves you then write a diary and start a discussion on it. This thread is about returning to a rational basis for dealing with gun violence since the flawed Heller decision.

                        We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                        by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:25:50 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •   i u., you are mistaken about Kasoru. /nt (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Kasoru, 43north
            •  No, you asked as you were being a dick. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose, Kasoru

              Just sayin'.

              Your directed response:  i understand.

              •  No, I asked because it has a bearing on the answer (3+ / 0-)

                All of my posts in response to questions about whether suicide should be legal start with whether a person is of sound mind. I was asked my opinion on a specific case, and so that is the first question that has to be asked.

                Your hide rate is without merit.

                We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:38:30 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  43N.. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I don't think he was asking about the mental ill to be a dick.. think he was confused about my comments.. as evidenced at his continued dodging of pointed direct questions.=.. but he is RASA so who knows?

                •  So... (3+ / 0-)
                  but he is RASA so who knows
                  This is NOT being a dick?

                  What say you 43north since you're quick with the judgment calls on this...

                  We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                  by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:45:47 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Are you mentally ill" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    has a history of hide-rating on this website.

                    When asked about your mental status, regarding a choice of suicide vs any other choice?

                    The body of clinical work sides with "mentally ill" always.
                    It's what makes physician-assisted so toxic to the rest of the medical community.

                    "You can't say he's in his right mind."
                    "We can't play GOD now can we?"
                    "Who are you to say it's hopeless?"
                    Preconception of mental illness.
                    Suicide vs. us meddling with your body and mind is always a bad answer.  
                    At the least, we could make a case-study of you.  
                    At the best, we can collect a few hundred thousand dollars more of insurance pay-outs.

                    Doctors, always play god, it's in the job description.  
                    Cancer?  We can cut that out.
                    It wasn't an accident, wasn't something you picked-up on that non-immunized trip to the Third World, so it's "god-given".
                    Meddling with that, is making you - the doctor - god.
                    Assuming there is a god, other than my cat.

                    As to when to throw in the towel?  I DO think the patient has the final say.  
                    However, the first step to prevent this, is for the Attending Physician to claim mental incapacity, and have either a gullible relative or court-appointed conservator take over medical decision making.
                    "I want to die.  I want all extraordinary measures stopped.  Enough."

                    Your dad isn't in his right mind.  There's a cure right around the corner.  Five or Fifteen years from now, the FDA will release a new protocol, and we'll see no more of this kind of illness.  YOU need to sign these forms, and have the court appoint you medical guardian.
                    So, I'm certainly dead-set against this "are you mentally ill" discussion, as it masks a presumption.

                    As to the RASA comment?  "Repeatedly dodging pointed questions" seems to be the standard used.

                    If you're answering pointed questions, there must be no harm, no foul.  
                    If you're not answering, as it's not fitting with your agenda???

                    •  So what. (0+ / 0-)

                      Being "dead set against" a discussion does not justify a hide-rate. And that's not what you said justified it in the first place.

                      And yet you continue to follow a double standard, hide-rating my post even after it was explained to you not just by me, but by Kasoru himself and not hide-rating his dickish comment.


                      We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

                      by i understand on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 07:27:40 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  I know buddabelly, and I know you're full of shit. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joy of Fishes, FrankRose, Kasoru

          That's my field experience, State-certified, National-registry, 20+ years in the field, Instructor-Trainer opinion.

          Your directed response:  i understand.

          Come back to me when you can count-off the number if teeth in a body bag zipper by memory, as you can no longer look at the contents.
          You know her by name.
          You were at her third birthday.
          You took her swimming at the ocean.
          You were invited to her dance recital.
          You broke the news to her parents.
          You carried her coffin, and lowered her into the ground.
          You did the same for the former boyfriend.

          Then tell me what I should know.

          •  I agreed it's a public policy issue (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sharon Wraight, Old Sailor

            He thinks it's a totally private matter. Seems to me you have a beef with him, not me.

            Unless, of course, you're both full of shit and are just saying anything you can to support your gun fetish?

            Oh, and saying someone is full of shit seems pretty dickish to me... but with this as your motto:

            Moderate or extreme or somewhere in between, we hold one common belief: more gun control equals lost elections. We don't want a repeat of 1994. We are an inclusive group: if you see the Second Amendment as safeguarding our right to keep and bear arms individually, then come join us in our conversation. If you are against the right to keep and bear arms, come join our conversation. We look forward to seeing you, as long as you engage in a civil discussion.
            You must have grown immune to hypocrisy from the constant exposure.

            We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

            by i understand on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:55:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  It sounds like a very emotionally fraught time for (0+ / 0-)

        you, as it would be for anyone. I hope you're able to move on, drawing appropriate lessons from it (and avoiding the wrong 'lessons'), and healing as best one can. Best wishes!

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