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View Diary: Fraternity suspends Ole Miss chapter after three members suspected of defacing James Meredith statue (32 comments)

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  •  Hmmm. (2+ / 0-)

    Is that something like what they call pattern of practice? If legal action against this kind of behavior is possible, I sure hope someone takes it on.

    Thanks for the great info.

    "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

    by cotterperson on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 10:29:40 AM PST

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    •  I don't know the answer to that (5+ / 0-)

      I pay attention to these incidents - because we've had a few on my SUNY campus - and also because I am clear that racism and sexism of this type are not only things practiced by old folks who are dying off - frat culture often perpetuates this among the young.

      I'm not against all fraternal organizations - I know of quite a few that do real good -especially community service oriented ones.

      But I am also very leery of frats (and sororities) who have  multiple incidents nationwide

      "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

      by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 10:37:47 AM PST

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    •  What kind of legal action? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, Woody

      A fraternity essentially is a private club.  Legally, private clubs can be as bigoted as they want.  I would hope that as a moral matter, the club would want to denounce that kind of thing, and I would hope that, if a fraternity recognized by a university did something like that, the university would pull their charter (not recognize them any more) but legally, you can't sue a private club for being bigots, and you can't bring criminal action against a private club for being bigots.  

      •  Good point (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, ER Doc

        Especially considering that this is a state school we're talking about.  On the other hand, I would have no problem at all with these three, and any other individual  member who knew about this and didn't report it, being smacked down hard by the student judicial system.

        "Leave us alone!" -Mike Capuano

        by Christian Dem in NC on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 11:04:12 AM PST

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      •  schools have the right to kick frats off (7+ / 0-)

        of the campus if they violate standards.

        Racism counts as a violation - here's a recent example

        Fraternity Kicked Off Campus After Watermelon and Gangbanger MLK Party

        Tau Kappa Epsilon was informed on Thursday night that it is no longer a recognized fraternity at ASU. This means that the group can no longer gather on campus and every mention of the group in ASU’s promotional material will be removed.

        ASU President Michael Crow says the fraternity violated behavioral standards. “At ASU, students who violate these standards will be subject to disciplinary sanctions in order to promote their own personal development, to protect the university community, and to maintain order and stability on our campuses,” he said.

        Which standards did the fraternity violate? According to USA Today, “engaging in discriminatory activities, violating alcohol rules, violating the terms of earlier disciplinary sanctions and off-campus conduct that may present a risk or danger” were all violations of the school’s code of conduct.

        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 12:08:40 PM PST

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      •  Your tender concern for bigots' rights ... (3+ / 0-)

        is once again noted.

        It'd be such a refreshing change to see you stand up for the rights of marginalized communities to be free from discrimination and oppression. But clearly, that's not where your heart lies.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 12:50:50 PM PST

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        •  Standing up for the Constitutional rights of the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          texasmom, Woody

          people we hate is the difficult part.  It's easy to support constitutional rights of people we agree with.  Most people here do a good job of that.  It's very hard to stand up for the constitutional rights of people we find odious, like, say, the Westboro Baptist Church.  But we must do that; if we don't respect, and support, constitutional rights for people we do not like, we cannot expect that our constitutional rights will be respected.  What's the quote -- "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."  It's easy to "defend to the death your right to say it" if I agree with what you say.  And when people here agree with someone, their constitutional rights are usually not under attack here.  It's when people disagree with what someone says, or their beliefs, that it becomes all the more important to "defend to the death" their right to say it.  

          •  You sound just like my husband (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Woody

            We've had these discussions over the last 35+ years.  He's also an attorney and I am probably the only music major at my university to take two semesters of constitutional law as electives.  Still have the textbooks and reference case books, too.  ;)

            After all these years, I understand completely with my mind what you are saying and the principles involved.  I do believe it, although I'll admit it still raises the hackles of my heart.  

            It is all or nothing on this one.  Sometimes principles are not easy to uphold.  

            The truth always matters.

            by texasmom on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 03:07:35 PM PST

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          •  Sorry, I'm not buying your story. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Danali, YucatanMan

            I've told you before that I can see through all your highfalutin rationalizations for your defense of bigotry.  This is no different.

            You show up in almost every diary having to do with some kind of prejudice and you write multiple lengthy, discursive comments about why the bigots need to be protected.  (You engaged vigorously in a diary the other day about Arizona's new antigay law and claimed that (in your view) the government is not free to regulate conduct like racial and sexual orientation discrimination.)  Your consistent defense of the rights of bigots to discriminate is not some kind of strange coincidence, nor does it proceed from the claimed high-minded principles you describe above.  

            I'm a gay man who's been around long enough to recognize homophobia when I see it.  I'm quite certain the same is true with African-American users of this site when it comes to racism.  While those who lack our particularly sensitive antennae for bigotry may be deceived by your veil of legal justifications for the unjustifiable, we're not so gullible.

            So please spare me the verbal gymnastics.  They don't work on me.  Save them for the people who, like you, need some superficially neutral explanation to hide behind.

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 07:15:16 PM PST

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      •  Greek organizations are not private clubs. (2+ / 0-)

        They exist as a part of the campus communtiy, and must abide by community standards.

        You are right that private clubs can't be sued just for being bigoted, but a fraternity is more than just a private club.

        Dont Mourn, Organize !#konisurrender

        by cks175 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 01:52:38 PM PST

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        •  Well, they are, but they are allowed on campus (0+ / 0-)

          that's why I said a school can revoke the charter of a particular fraternity on their campus.  That only affects one chapter of the fraternity.  The fraternity itself, like Sig Ep, is a national organization.  That national organization is a private club.  

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