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View Diary: BREAKING: Yanukovych Flees Kiev, New Elections In May (269 comments)

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  •  Western Ukraine has increasingly... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    Moved outside of Russia's sphere of influence -- but I don't think the book is closed on the future of eastern Ukraine and especially Crimea by any stretch of the imagination. There is a whole range of scenarios that could end with Russia either annexing Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine or backing separatist forces there, as it did in Georgia in 2008.

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 02:39:02 PM PST

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    •  I wonder if Crimea would revolt on its own (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whizdom

      and demand annexation by Russia. That could get weird in a hurry.

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      by nota bene on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 03:12:11 PM PST

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      •  Is Ukraine viable without Sevastopol and Kharkiv? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SaoMagnifico, wu ming, native, Anne Elk

        Although it would lose its best (and most idyllic) Black Sea port, there's still Odessa.  But it's hard to ignore that majorities in the East and Crimea might prefer Moscow to Kiev.

        Self-determination is an easy concept to understand but it's a hard one to implement :(.  Modern Ukraine is a weird construct - the western part of the country was Polish three generations ago and Lviv is "better" known as Lwów, a Polish city and one of the more prominent centers of European Judaism before the war, but the Soviets decided that the Nazis were onto something and crammed down the Curzon and Oder-Neisse lines that pushed all of Europe further west to give the Soviets their own "lebensraum" of sorts; Polish Lwów became Ukrainian Lviv and Prussian Danzig became Polish Gdansk (a gross oversimplification, but I'm not writing a research paper here).  The Polish citizens of Lwów who survived the brutal occupations were forced into the new Poland and the German-speaking residents of East Prussia were forced into what became East Germany.

        We're still dealing with those poorly-drawn lines today in places like Yugoslavia and, today, in Ukraine.

        "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

        by auron renouille on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 03:54:46 PM PST

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        •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

          According to you?

          Lviv is "better" known as Lwów, a Polish city and one of the more prominent centers of European Judaism before the war,
          Not according to anyone I know including all the people I know who live there who 'know' it as Lviv.
          •  Yes, that's because the Poles were pushed out by (0+ / 0-)

            the Soviets.  Maybe I'm too old and crusty but in old history books it's often still referred to as Lwów.  Obviously not anymore, but depending on when your HS history books were written...

            "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

            by auron renouille on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:18:55 AM PST

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    •  the protest is against the corrupt government (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      charliehall2

      not east against west - the way American and western media wants to portray it

      •  You must be one of the few that thinks that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SaoMagnifico

        Every commentary I have read explains that, as is evident from the 2010 election results, west and east Ukraine are pretty easily seen as being sharply different. You are absolutely right though about the corruption, although I think that who is looting the public treasury seems to depend on which party is in power. Maybe I have this wrong, but it seemed that Yakunovich pretty much got elected as a revolt against the previous government's corruption. One of the problems with these former soviet republics is that they were left with little civil society and a pretty organized and cynical bureaucracy that pretty much looted the country in a massive free-for-all. I don't see much of a future for a single Ukraine though. I expect to see calls for partition at some point as Russia fuels a breakaway east Ukraine.

        Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

        by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:23:20 PM PST

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