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View Diary: Tony Perkins Tells Us Why (51 comments)

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  •  something like that (10+ / 0-)

    but I think the significance of the deepening alliance is less in generalizations about membership in the population, and more about the mobilization and political efficiency of a growing faction, and increasing deployment of resources into the fight.

    •  I'd rephrase it to say that they represent about (13+ / 0-)

      half of the LEADERSHIP of the US Christian population.

      "Catholics in the pew" have often mostly ignored what their leaders told them on this and other positions.  As a non-Catholic who does have some Catholic friends, it seems that for most they will cite what the hierarchy says if they already agree with that opinion, and ignore it if they don't.  I see relatively few being persuaded by anything they hear from clergy.

      Even in the conservative and Evangelical communities, there's a big difference between what leaders think, particularly on the GLBT issue, and what younger people think.  But the leaders are predominantly older.

      Barring a huge crisis in our country which completely shifts our culture, the anti-GLBT people have lost and will be increasingly marginalized in few years.  Far fewer than I would have imagined 5 years ago.

      •  Yes, I'm Aware of the Difference Between Leader (4+ / 0-)

        ship and membership.

        However leadership representing about half the population and drawing to some degree on their donations, that's an important part of the picture of their power.

        Unlike anti LGBT, I think anti abortion has a robust future. An npr story within the half year reported millennials are dropping back approaching equal split on abortion freedoms.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 12:51:26 PM PST

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        •  An important point . . . (0+ / 0-)

          Anti-LGBT actions occur between equal adults. Even a zealot has to admit that an LGBT American is a citizen with the exact same rights under the Constitution as the zealot has. Oh, they'll try to fudge the issue, but it is not hard to frame it as a disagreement between two citizens. Between equals.

          But abortion, to zealous anti-abortionists, involves the murder of helpless children. They will act accordingly, just as resolutely as abolitionists did during the Civil War era.

          You couldn't have convinced Frederick Douglas or John Brown back then to chill out on the issue of slavery, not for love nor money nor the threat of death. So it is with anti-abortion zealots. Why? Because they really do, really and truly do believe that even contraception is murder of a human soul, is preventing it from having life, which it deserves.

          How do you stand by while a child is murdered? You can't.

          So they have painted themselves into an impossible corner. There is no way to believe what they believe and not act.

          You can't talk them out of, nor discuss it as equal adults because they feel they are rescuing a helpless infant. Anything they have to do to save an infant child is going to get done. You would act as resolutely if you saw an infant being kicked on the street corner by adults. You can't walk away from that and live with yourself.

          I point this out to make clear that the only way to change the behavior of anti-abortionist zealots is to change their belief that abortion, or even contraception, is first degree murder.

          Their Bible says no such thing, in fact, their Bible is fine with bashing children's heads against stone walls, and women taking potions to cause miscarriage. But from a cherry-picked selection of unrelated verses they've come up with the "premise" that the unborn are persons from the moment of conception (or before), so anything you do to the unborn is done unto a person.

          That's what their religious leaders choose to preach, and what their zealots believe to their core, which is why abortion rights will be a long and bloody struggle in our nation, only to be settled when their zealots and religious leaders are hounded into obscurity and extinction. Make it cost them and their churches too much to continue to teach the lie that abortion is murder, and they will teach something else.

          In the days of the Old Testament, abortion was a common practice. Women had the choice to have a baby or not. That's the way it was among the tribes of Israel.

          "The 1% have no wealth. They have our wealth."

          by antifa on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 02:07:32 PM PST

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          •  I do not seriously think that most of them (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Calamity Jean

            believe that "abortion is murder" or that it involves "babies" or an "unborn person." I believe that's cynical crap being pushed down people's throats by leaders with ulterior motives — primarily their disgust, contempt and hatred of women.

            If you did truly believe this, it would trump opposition to effective birth control on arcane theological points — after all, we're talking about preventing MURDER of BABIES.

            They know all the studies and research that show banning abortion will not stop it but that preventing unplanned pregnancies causes it to plummet. They don't care because this isn't about babies — it's about misogyny. And these two "churches" are places where that flourishes.

            Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

            by anastasia p on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 03:23:20 PM PST

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          •  not so. (0+ / 0-)
            "Even a zealot has to admit that an LGBT American is a citizen with the exact same rights under the Constitution as the zealot has."
            if they actually believed this, we wouldn't be having the attacks on marriage equality, and women's right to choose, that we see. they would continue trying to stop people from doing things they consider immoral, but solely by persuasion, not legislative fiat.
    •  They've completely lost control of the "debate", (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      ...their political influence is defeated, and their media strategy is a failure. They're regrouping. It won't be surprising if ineffective ops like FRC and Tony Perkins are replaced soon by a new strategy with the pols and the media.

    •  i must disagree with this assertion: (0+ / 0-)
      "and more about the mobilization and political efficiency of a growing faction"
      I submit that the opposite is true, the faction is actually shrinking. check the demographics of the evangelical & catholic church's memberships; they're getting older, not younger. as time goes on, their influence, especially politically, will wane, as their constituency dies off and isn't replaced, on even a 1:1 basis.
      •  this kind of data (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bronx59

        does not tell us much about whether an organized political faction is growing.

        I submit that the Christian Right, as described in this diary and in the underlying essay is in fact, a growing faction, and is enjoying the benefits of massive infusions of money and other resources.  The notion that because memberships in churches is down and that what remains is aging is a reassuring narrative for those who choose not to recognize that they are getting their political asses kicked in a lot of places around the country.  And that it is the Christian Right that is doing a fair share of the kicking.

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