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View Diary: It's fun to accidentally discharge your handgun at the Y-M-C-A! GunFAIL LIX (245 comments)

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  •  Pro Gun comments (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrankRose, Tominator

    @Sharon Wright, do you have an issue allowing pro gun comments on this blog? Perhaps every good card-carrying progressive, which I am, should be required to be anti-gun in order to post. Would this make you happy, or did I miss your point?

    •  there's been some issues recently with (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharon Wraight

      sock puppeting, one way to start researching is to look at join dates

      •  You got me, my real name is ... (0+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        Hidden by:
        WakeUpNeo

        Adolf Hitler - that is right.  I am not just as bad as Hitler, I
        am Hitler.

        You got me.  The cat is out of the bag.  

        •  And now you're proving yourself to being a dick. (2+ / 0-)

          Congratulations. Have a donut.

          One rule to rule them all

          The core of the Daily Kos behavior guide is simple: don't be a dick. While we go into some depth below about sanctionable behavior, it's not an all-encompassing list. There are always types of behavior that while not listed below, rise to the level of "dickishness", and as such are actionable...
           
          •  @WakeUpNeo Your comment says more about YOU (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose, Tominator

            than it does about me ...

            Seriously, I have posted a handful of comments - many quite progressive - but I dared to mention that we ought not vilify all gun owners, nor should we take delight in gun-related tragedies - even those befalling gun owners and I am attacked and accused of being a sock puppet.

            When I mock that baseless accusation by claiming to be the actual Adolf Hitler - and not merely someone who is just as bad as Hitler - I am told that I am proving myself of being a dick.

            Well ... this is why America continues to suffer senseless gun deaths - the most ardent supporters attack anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with them and their attitude rallies more foes than allies.  Wayne LaPierre thanks all of you for your aid.

            •  As a scientist please don't claim (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharon Wraight

              causality without reason, rather than opinion

              'this is why America continues to suffer senseless gun deaths the most ardent supporters attack anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with them and their attitude rallies more foes than allies. Wayne LaPierre thanks all of you for your aid.'

              There have been dozens of people banned from this site for making useless inflammatory remarks on several sides of gun related issues, it tends to be a pattern over time rather than a one-off, your pattern is developing

              Rather than useless inflammatory remark, as a scientist, how about reasoned discourse?

              However if you simply want to flame there's plenty of places rather than Kos

              •  I am sorry (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tominator

                Obviously I have insulted and/or offended a number of people here. Despite the fact that I, too, feel offended and insulted by some of the things said to me and the fact that I am not sure exactly how I offended and/or insult you:

                I apologize.  I am sorry for saying or doing things that offended or insulted you (the plural you). I didn't not mean to offend or insult anyone, much less people who are working on making America (including my loved ones) safer against gun violence - we are all in this fight together and on the same side.   Divisiveness is the enemy.  I apologize for any contribution I may have made toward divisiveness.

                This apology does not mean I have changed my mind: I still think it is inappropriate to make light of people being shot - whether they are gun owners or Trayvon Martin - it is a tragedy... and one we should be taking seriously.   I also think we would have better success convincing some of the tens of millions of gun owners to join us, rather than driving them deeper into the arms of the NRA. [It is notable, both Ronald Reagan and G.W Bush supported gun control.  If they are on our side why not Joe Six-Pack?]

                However, since I caused 'bad blood' here - I'll avoid reading and contributing to firearm discussion on Kos.  

                FWIW: As a scientist, I can tell you scientists make assertions and act on opinion and intuition all of the time.   If we had to wait until all the facts were in, that day would never come.   We bounce around ideas and sift the wheat from the chaff in informal settings.  Additionally, I generally do not treat blogs with the same seriousness as I do peer review journals... few people do.

                •  Don't let them bully you. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BadBoyScientist

                  You made a statement & they went on to verify your statement with their behavior.

                  You have nothing to apologize for.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 03:16:54 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No bullying ... (0+ / 0-)

                    My comments were not welcome in this community - and it is not my place to 'teach them the error of their ways.'   Arguing, insulting and offending does not bring people to your point of view - it pushes them away.

                    I  did exactly what I accused them of doing - it was wrong.

                    Yes, I have something to apologize for - hypocrisy.

                    -- illegitimi non carborundum

                    by BadBoyScientist on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 03:34:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  If you wish to comment on firearms & gun control (0+ / 0-)

                      you should be able to do so.

                      Those that you conversed with are not the arbiters of what issues you can comment on & what positions you hold or espouse.

                      That said, it's all up to you.
                      Just be sure to keep it that way.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 04:00:15 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thanks, my friend (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        FrankRose

                        That is exactly the point - this venue is not a good fit with my views.  If I persist sharing my views here I'll just alienate more people and get into more annoying exchanges where they ignore my main points but nitpick this word or that.  

                        I have no need to make my voice heard here.  I teach, so hundreds of students hear (and sleep through) my voice every week.  LOL.  

                        [In fact, I am only monitoring this thread in case any of those  who had the most, call it, 'friction' with me would care to 'mend fences'.  For all I know, one of them would be a terrific collaborator on another issue... besides, life is too short for enemies.  ]

                        -- illegitimi non carborundum

                        by BadBoyScientist on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 04:15:51 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Welcome to DailyKos, jrudisill (2+ / 0-)

      I see you joined 2 Dec 2013, you have made 12 comments, of which 11 are pro-gun comments (all of which are in reply to David's GunFAIL diaries: eight on Dec 3rd -- from 12:04-12:45AM, hours after you joined, one on Dec 18, and two on Mar 5).

      •  Point? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tominator

        If you are going to accuse him of being a sock-puppet, have the guts to say so.

        Otherwise you are bullying a new user simply because he doesn't agree with your draconian & authoritarian viewpoint on this issue.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 09:12:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There have been dozens of people banned (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharon Wraight

          With several views on gun related issues, for making useless inflammatory remarks

          Letting new users know that there have been thousands and thousands of useless inflammatory related to guns is now considered dickish is doing them a favor

          •  Oh, so THAT'S what it is? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tominator

            A favor.

            Gosh, in that case, the baseless accusations of sock-puppetry & the calls for an HR pile are excellent examples of the kinds  of 'kindness'  one can expect from the RASA & FLAP crew, and your comment is an excellent example of the honesty to be expected from those that share their viewpoint.

            Tell you what, if you don't want to be a bully, stop with the 'favors' & encourage others to do the same.
            However, if you want to stifle the conversation, just keep doing what you're doing & encourage others to do the same.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 12:05:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  As we remember, Frank (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharon Wraight

              This has all been done before, that's what we're trying to let new commenters know

              We're not 'stifling' a conversation, but trying to avoid harmful categorizations, degradation, and just meanness from people who just haven't bothered to get a few facts together
              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Some of the participants in that conversation were eventually banned, for good reason, and thanks to the people who did check out the facts

              •  When it comes to 'not putting facts together' (0+ / 0-)

                gun controllers are experts.

                Which is why, in this very thread, I have provided pertinent & linked facts & you have provided opinion-barf & completely unrelated links to DKos diaries.

                Which is why my predictions on the political fallout of this subject has been far more accurate than those of gun controller's.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 01:21:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The relevancy is the abuse (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharon Wraight

                  The relevancy is the abuse, the misinformation and the eventual banning of abusive commenters.

                  Your excerpted one sentence citations from Slate magazine are just that, journalism. Reference the report with adequate citation if you seek accuracy.

                  Finally I'm pretty sure calling me afraid, uneducated and cited and refereneced quotes, "opinon-barf" is (a), (a) and (a)

                  Just one example:
                  We know the username and we know we sometimes agree on issues yet we really disagree on the points made.What should we do?
                  a) Attack the diarist
                  b) Make a reasoned argument as to why we disagree

                  Third example:
                  a)No matter the argument deflect and deceive and attempt to convince others that only we hold the truth while flinging insults.
                  b)Make a reasoned argument as to why we disagree.

                  Fifth example:
                  a)Make accusations against others without supporting facts/links
                  b)Make a reasoned argument as to why we disagree.

                  If any of your answers were, a), you are being a dick and should be considered as such.
                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  •  "abuse"--Displayed above with the bullying of (0+ / 0-)

                    new users. Bullying you are defending.

                    Reference the report with adequate citation if you seek accuracy.
                    As you--yourself said--the report cannot be linked.
                    However, anyone that has the report can read that quote for themselves (it's on page 24).
                    Slate magazine is a credible organization and quotes that exact passage from the CDC.
                    As I linked to Slate that is an example of "supporting facts/links". Something that you have been unable/unwilling to do in your false accusation of me (and Slate) quoting out of context.

                    My statements have been substantiated. Yours have not.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 02:50:50 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I already provided the quote in full (0+ / 0-)

                      and that's important, in full

                      It's from p. 31 of the pdf. Hey, I like Slate, but it's only a zine. I don't find them that credible.

                      Clearly there was abuse in the thread sent or users wouldn't have been banned.

                      And of course you know that many of those banned were new users engaging in those behaviors that were warned against today.

          •  Do any other "single-issues" attract as many men? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            i saw an old tree today

            None that can think of, offhand, compared to guns. The vast majority of them are male, and with such anxiety about their 'guns' being taken away. Why do you think that is?

            •  There are men at this site that avoid these (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharon Wraight

              Hurls, they may have participated at the beginning but stay away because of the abuse

              I only say men because I think some of these guys are men based on years of chatting with them, but as others have learned it's stupid to assume

              While there are many women on this site who have weapons, or defend weaponry, there aren't many who do so rabidly, I can think of a couple that started but backed out; I believe you are correct that most of the hurled comments are from men, because they have at some point said they were men (of course there's too many hurled comments to wade through to be certain), or they have spoken of their wives or some such reference

              But then maybe Frank's a woman for all I know

              Insofar as gun ownership is predominately male it's not a surprise that vocalization about the issue follows; having said that, just a warning, pink was first used in marketing as a support for breast cancer survivor support, and that it has been copped by gun manufacturers is really sleazy

              •  Oh, absolutely! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                i saw an old tree today

                I was referring to the single-issue types, who come here and (nearly) immediately jump into gun pie-fights, repeating NRA talking points that our community has dissected months ago, adding little new, using Scalia's dickish invective on 2A, spending little if any time on positive proposals to reduce gun-violence, and largely ignoring all the other issues and campaigns that progressive Democrats work on.

                *laf*, you could be right, "a Rose by any other name"...  A good reminder, about the internetz.

                •  Completely, I'm trying very hard today (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharon Wraight

                  To raise the level of the debate in the hopes that the types you're referring to actually want to improve. The discussion of puerile penile fantasy has happened here lots before, and while much truth to it, both sides get dicky. I was skating.

                  Seems that if they repeatedly, day after day, meet more than one of the a) criteria:  

                  a) Attack the diarist
                  a) Our "friends" know the username and never agree on the issues and we attempt to defend them no matter the content.
                  a)No matter the argument deflect and deceive and attempt to convince others that only we hold the truth while flinging insults.
                  a)Go to "the hiddens" find a name and pile on.
                  a)Make accusations against others without supporting facts/links

                  and always avoid the b) criteria
                  b)Make a reasoned argument as to why we disagree.

                  ...then they should be HRd and soon banned if appropriate.

                  Seems like the harder I tried to raise the level of debate, I got more, 'go educate yourself.' Clearly that's not the problem : )

                •  ran across this example (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharon Wraight

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  I'm failing to see what a bunch of this crowd is actually doing to establish the Democratic agenda, rather its an obvious immature ploy to attempt to get the Democrats to bow to their agenda, which is largely sexist and ill-informed in the larger scheme,

                  guns first then policy -

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