Skip to main content

View Diary: Max Blumenthal: Is the U.S. Backing Neo-Nazis in Ukraine? (99 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  The premier newspaper of France, Le Monde, no (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, OIL GUY

    relation to your source says quite the opposite. (my translation.)

    In The East, Ukrainians Put The Red Army Uniform On Again

    His name is Viktor, same as the word for "victory."  Same as Viktor Ianoukovitch, too. On Sunday, February 23rd, Viktor, age 80, with steel blue eyes, wore his Soviet army officer’s uniform once more. On Freedom Square in Kharkiv, in the eastern part of Russian-speaking Ukraine, the old man proudly celebrated the Red Army’s 96th anniversary. He was ten years old at the time of the Second World War but he served in the army then. " I have the right to wear my officer's uniform. “

    http://www.lemonde.fr/...

    It goes on like that, longing for the Soviet era. His son serves in the Russian Army and he's going to come and kick the protester's ass.

    These accusations of the US backing neo-nazis are highly irresponsible. They haven't produced anything to support their claim.

    Stephen Cohen didn't think before he made the same accusation last week, based on the intercepted telephone call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt. At the end of the call, Nuland said Ban Ki Moon and Robert Serry from the UN were going to cement the arrangements that were discussed.  

    Does the accusation extend to them too? They're backing neo-nazis too?

    There is no existence without doubt.

    by Mark Lippman on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:51:57 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Old man celebrating defeating Hitler? (0+ / 0-)

      Horrors.

      "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

      by Paleo on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:54:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He never mentioned Hitler./ (0+ / 0-)

        There is no existence without doubt.

        by Mark Lippman on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:55:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  He referenced his role in the WWII (0+ / 0-)

          As I recall, they were fighting the Nazis.

          "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

          by Paleo on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 09:59:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe he didn't mention it because Russia is (0+ / 0-)

            pretty close to a fascist state itself these days.

            The Russophiles who are howling about neo-nazis would have a much better case if Russia hadn't drifted toward fascism itself. But the Russophiles don't have a leg to stand on when they accuse others of excessive nationalism. It's a little bit like the wolf who cried wolf.

            There is no existence without doubt.

            by Mark Lippman on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:13:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Or maybe he didn't mention it because it's obvious (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paleo
              •  Is it that obvious? The celebration was for the (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                nuclear winter solstice

                Red Army. He spoke about the Soviet era. Others here want to put Hitler in the picture.

                OK. Let's remember the history. The Soviet Union and fascist Germany had a non-aggression pact at the start of WW2. The Soviet Union and Hitler invaded Poland from opposite directions and divided it between them.  

                How does the 80 year-old Ukrainian Red Army officer reconcile his nostalgia for the Soviet Union which had no problem with Hitler. It wasn't until fascist Germany broke the pact and invaded the Soviet Union. To be clear, it was Ukraine and Belorus that suffered most. Practically all of Ukraine was occupied by fascist Germany till the last year of the war. During the occupation, if he was in the Red Army, he wasn't in Ukraine. He was fighting to save Russia, which left his country to the Nazis who committed unbelievable atrocities there.

                You want to pin a medal on anyone for fighting Hitler. Tell the countless Jews who were wiped out during the German occupation. And if that's not enough, the Soviet Union wasn't exactly hospitable to its Jewish population even after the war. They and Hitler had something in common.

                Ya think maybe there's a reason why Hitler isn't mentioned? That topic is murky in that part of the world.
                Yes Hitler was finally defeated. It's not so hard to understand why that experience is painful. I know from my ties to France that the less said the better about it there too. When it is discussed, it almost always becomes a very heated argument. The experience of occupation, was very different from the way Americans picture the war with a good guys vs bad guys naivte. If you are American that is. One can't assume.

                There is no existence without doubt.

                by Mark Lippman on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 11:56:14 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wow, so much bull, I don't know where to begin... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  6412093

                  You should read about pre-text to Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
                  And you should read about how Polish-Soviet war in 1919, which took big chunk of Ukraine and Belarus under Poland rule. And you should read WWII history before spewing bullshit like

                  if he was in the Red Army, he wasn't in Ukraine. He was fighting to save Russia
                  People actually fought, retreated all over to Stalingrad and died defending Ukraine, you piece of sh...t!!!
                  And this?!
                  Tell the countless Jews who were wiped out during the German occupation. And if that's not enough, the Soviet Union wasn't exactly hospitable to its Jewish population even after the war. They and Hitler had something in common.
                  Almost three million Soviet Jews died in Holocaust. And almost 10 million USSR civilians dead in that war and you, piece of garbage saying they have something in common with Hitler!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!
                  •  This is historical fact whether you like it or not (2+ / 0-)

                    and it was consistent in the Soviet Union for decades after the war. After a brief respite it resumed.

                    The truth is there's always someone for the Russians to demonize. Look what they did to the Chechens. Even before the first Chechen war, Russia dispersed the Chechens throughout the republics in central Asia to destroy their language, customs, and culture. They weren't allowed to return to Chechnya for years.

                    Putin waged a war of genocide against the Chechens after he came to power. About 100,000 Chechens fled the Caucasus region in 2001-2002 and international observers confirmed what they reported.  Genocide is the extermination of a people, and destruction of their culture, including language, customs, family ties, friendships. The survivors suffer from PTSD, constant anxiety about their safety. And Putin demanded their return from the countries that gave them refugee status so that they could be put on trial.

                    A few years later, the journalist, Anna Politkovskaya, who went to Chechnya as an investigative reporter, and who wrote critically of what the Russians did there, was assassinated.

                    And after that, the human rights activist, Natalya Estemirova, who went to Chechnya to investigate civil liberties violations was also assassinated.

                    Even with the FSB and SORM, Russia can't figure out who committed these murders.

                    To be truthful, I'd rather criticize my own country, not Russia.  But Russia is in no position to preach to or criticize other countries. And notice I'm still being polite and courteous to you.  If you can, it would be better to refrain from language that doesn't belong in civil discourse.

                    There is no existence without doubt.

                    by Mark Lippman on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 01:10:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  I have said nothing about the issue of the US (0+ / 0-)

      backing or not backing the neo-nazis.   I simply brought to everyone's attention a report from the French TV news that contains video footage of neo-nazis having taken over Kiev's city hall.  

      If you listen to the report, and I believe you are a French speaker, France 2 states that it is an exclusive.  

      What Le Monde is reporting has nothing to do with the takeover of Kiev's city hall.

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:00:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am always skeptical of every news source. I look (0+ / 0-)

        for confirmation from multiple sources.

        The truth is there's no way to know who those people wearing masks were. They were a bit clownish. Far-right fascists in Europe don't necessarily identify with German fascism either. In France, they don't use the swastika because it has a very particular meaning. They know they'll get farther with the public if they steer clear of that. They killed a leftist student activist on the street in Paris last summer. Vandalizing the city hall in Kyiv doesn't mean they're taking over the country. Does anyone know if the municipal government is no longer functioning? The protests weren't against city hall.

        There are two many unanswered questions for me to be concerned about that.

        The Russians are masters of propaganda. Putin has updated it for the 21st Century. Extreme rightwingers are a minority of the protesters. They barely acknowledge the centrist democrats except to say that they overthrew a democratically elected government. Nothing they say is ever exactly true and the key is in what they omit from their tales.

        There is no existence without doubt.

        by Mark Lippman on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:38:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  municipal gov works where they rejected protesters (0+ / 0-)

          But in other places (other than Kiev) the following was happening

          link

          This is a meeting of lawmakers in Rovno (something like county assembly here in US).

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site