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View Diary: Cartoon: Stand your ground, dirtbag (43 comments)

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  •  Understood, but the concept of "duty to retreat" (5+ / 0-)

    was never written into law as such until courts decided to create a dichotomy. The majority of US States do not have a "duty to retreat", 31 vs 19.

    Blackstone, the source of many of our interpretations of common law leads credence to three types of homicide. 1. Justifiable 2. Excusable and 3. Preventative.

    The first two cover what we understand as "castle doctrine" and "stand your ground".  The third is never a legitimate defense.

    They cannot therefore legally exercise this right of preventive defense, but in sudden and violent cases; when certain and immediate suffering would be the consequence of waiting for the assistance of the law. Wherefore, to excuse homicide by the plea of self-defense, it must appear that the slayer had no other possible means of escaping from his assailant.
    The link you provide reverses actual historical fact.  Castle Doctrine predates "duty to retreat".  

    Even gun fearing Massachusetts had to pass "Castle Doctrine laws" after courts repeatedly "got it wrong".

    The case of Roberta E. Shaffer in 1971 points out the problem.

    An argument over breakfast that morning escalated between the two and Ferruzzo once again threatened Shaffer. Frightened for her life, Shaffer sought safety in the basement with her children. Ferruzzo stood at the top of the stairs yelling to Shaffer that if she did not come back up he would go into the basement and kill both her and her children. Before Shaffer could get law enforcement on the phone, Ferruzzo started to descend the stairs. Terrified for her and her children’s lives, Shaffer loaded a .22 LR rifle and shot Ferruzzo dead. Shaffer was convicted of manslaughter.
    I was just hoping to uncover the source of this internet meme...thanks for the link though.

    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

    by gerrilea on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:05:59 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not sure I understand (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AaronInSanDiego

      England had a vast amount of common laws which were established by court rulings. That's just kind of how they rolled. It's how we roll as well.

      And I can find no evidence that the Castle Doctrine is older than the Enlightenment period. It wouldn't even make sense for it to be older than that, as I wrote in another comment. The Castle Doctrine has the Enlightenment, the idea of individuality, all over it. The duty to retreat does not and comes across as much older.

      And I know who Blackstone is. After all, his Commentaries gets cited in our own court cases pretty much every year.

      Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

      by moviemeister76 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:19:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here...this is what I understand history to be (5+ / 0-)

        Castle doctrine

        The legal concept of the inviolability of the home has been known in Western Civilization since the age of the Roman Republic.[2] The term derives from the historic English common law dictum that "an Englishman's home is his castle". This concept was established as English law by 17th century jurist Sir Edward Coke, in his The Institutes of the Laws of England, 1628.[3] The dictum was carried by colonists to the New World, who later removed "English" from the phrase, making it "a man's home is his castle", which thereby became simply the castle doctrine.[3] The term has been used in England to imply a person's absolute right to exclude anyone from his home, although this has always had restrictions, and since the late twentieth century bailiffs have also had increasing powers of entry.[4]

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:44:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Except (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AaronInSanDiego

          The only evidence of when it cropped in that quote is no earlier than the 17th century. And again, the very concept of the Castle Doctrine aligns with the Enlightenment, the concept of individuals and property rights.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 10:17:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I cannot follow your logic, honestly. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tom Seaview, FrankRose

            This argument about the "enlightenment and individual property rights".

            The coin of phrase, "castle doctrine" was not referenced as such until the Blackstone era...but as he points out, just because he labeled "home defense" as such, at that time does not invalidate the thousands of years of history previously.

            The "concept" of defending your home isn't new.  "The duty to retreat" is.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 12:00:39 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  In reply to the quote, "to excuse ... assailant" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, FrankRose

      To be honest, the more I see of some trying to falsely characterize SYG as an excuse for whites to murder blacks, the more turned off I become about their portrayal of SYG.   Turning it into an, emotion based racial issue is just not persuasive.  I am sure those who believe it to be a racial issue will disagree.

      Just because some dirt bag, no pun intended, abuses the concept doesn't mean that it is a bad concept.  From the cases where courts got it wrong, I understand the need for and support both Castle Doctrine and SYG.

      "It's not surveillance, it's data collection to keep you safe"

      by blackhand on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 10:48:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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