Skip to main content

View Diary: My Answer (765 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I think you got Kos' message (24+ / 0-)

    I think a more productive way for kos to have acted would have been to email or message you directly. In my view, he made a mistake by doing it by diary.

    That said, I welcome your pledge here on treatment of voices that dissent from yours.

    Speaking for me only, your voice is welcome and necessary here, even though, as I have said in the past, it's not my cup of tea.

    I think with the change you have announced, your voice  becomes more powerful. Now folks will have to address the substance of your arguments, instead of deflecting with meta concerns.

    •  Naw. (16+ / 0-)

      It needed to be made public because Ray was not the only one to whom kos was speaking.

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 05:59:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kos' call-out diary was worse than a "mistake." (9+ / 0-)

      What lesson are we to learn, when the answer of the ostensible "leader" of this site to a perceived problem of "mob" behavior is to whip up a mob of his own?

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 11:38:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that Kos most likely felt things had (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sylv, Hey338Too

        reached a point that he was obliged to publicly disassociate both himself and the site from Ray's opinions and tactics. The only alternative would have been to ban Ray outright. Personally, I'm glad he chose the less extreme option.

        The bottom line is that this is Kos' site. No one has a "right" to post here. We are all here at Kos's sufferance. Frankly, I don't see the point in complaining about it.

         

        Nothing human is alien to me.

        by WB Reeves on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 03:10:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Eh, I don't see any point in pretending it's (6+ / 0-)

          a "community".

          It's Kos's for profit business.  He runs it in the way he feels will generate him the most revenue.  If he thinks someone damages his market value, he bans them.

          Fine.  Until we make the revolution, we live in a Capitalist country and Corporists like Kos own the resources the rest of us need to commute, eat, communicate, ect.

          He's no better or worse than the average CEO.  This is essentially the Whole Foods of the blogosphere.  Catering to liberals, giving employees no benefits, scoffing at the notion that employees might benefit from a union, trying to discourage the poor from sullying the joint, ect.

          So, good for him.  It's his place, his rules, his profits, and he'll ban who he likes.  

          Customers, however, will provide feedback about what they do or don't like.  That's also how business works.

          All I find offensive are claims that the peasants producing most of the content and all of the revenue have any "ownership".  

          I don't do well trying to hold two mutually exclusive ideas in my head at one time.  I'm one of those people who finds it deeply uncomfortable.

          "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

          by JesseCW on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 03:50:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's pretty simple really (4+ / 0-)

            and not mutually exclusive at all. The site belongs to Kos. The community is the people who populate it. Sorta of the cyber equivalent of the old country store that people treated as a public gathering spot. The store belonged to the owner but locals were welcomed to sit around and chew the fat as long as they behaved themselves. It was good for business.

            The customer analogy is completely accurate though, since no one has to pay Kos for the privilege of posting here. Neither does he charge for the exposure it provides. It's more of a barter arrangement; content for exposure.

            In any event, if you think the setup at the site is unacceptable, you can always create a site more to your liking and build it up until it eclipses DKos.

            I don't think it's a particularly effective tactic to post on someone's site and then complain that there's something unjust about being expected to follow the ground rules they set.

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 05:27:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Err, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Hey338Too, Sylv

              that should be "the customer analogy isn't completely accurate."

              Sorry.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 05:38:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  If the owner is free to toss any of the producers (6+ / 0-)

              he likes, it's not a community.

              It's a business.  One that caters to vulnerable people desperate for a completely artificial sense of community, no doubt.  I don't disagree that there are many people who are lacking in friends and family who really need somewhere to feel they belong, even if they have to pretend to care about politics from time to time to get it.

              But that's not actually community.  It's a crafted and marketed product.

              Perhaps you never tell the gas station owner his bathroom is dirty, or suggest to the grocery store owner he stock something else.  Some people are just raised to believe that whoever is in charge must automatically know best, I suppose.

              But that's not how business generally works in the US.

              The customer analogy isn't really accurate - we're just as much the product being sold.  The site relies much more on ad revenue than subscriptions, 'though that's changing.

              "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

              by JesseCW on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 06:24:58 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  There's nothing stopping Kossacks (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hey338Too

                from networking and interacting privately or off site. It's apparent that many do. That's community.

                Again, all Kos is doing is running a site that provides a forum and a meeting place. His house, his rules.

                I really don't see anything particularly nefarious or unjust about it.  

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 07:27:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nothing that isn't essentially unjust about (0+ / 0-)

                  capitalism in general.

                  As I said from the jump.

                  "I met you at the yogurt shop" doesn't make the yogurt shop a community.

                  "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

                  by JesseCW on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:17:24 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well I obviously agree with that (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    serendipityisabitch

                    I did make a distinction between the site per se and the users, did I not?

                    It works with the yogurt shop too. The people frequenting the shop may or may not constitute a community. The business and the people are separate and distinct entities. One doesn't determine the character of the other.

                    I think attempting to paint us all as a kind of exploited proletariat with Kos as the capitalist exploiter is a non starter. For one thing no one is being coerced by economic necessity into posting here. Posting on DKos is an option freely chosen, not a necessity extorted by hunger.

                    Beyond that, as I said previously, the appropriate comparison here is to barter. We trade content for exposure. Anytime anyone feels the exchange is inequitable, they are completely free to post elsewhere.

                    Hardly the position of a worker scrambling to hang on to their job.

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 02:41:37 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  I've personally made a real effort to understand (6+ / 0-)

              the nuances of DKos policy and to follow the rules here consistently, even when that meant searching obscure diaries and comment threads for arcane pronouncements by MB.

              I have a problem though when site admin sets up ground rules and flatly refuses to enforce them or even--sometimes--to follow the rules themselves.

              When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

              by PhilJD on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 07:20:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site