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View Diary: Rachel, Jed Lewison are mischaracterizing SB1062 (241 comments)

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  •  I agree with Diarist, but (17+ / 0-)

    as mentioned, "A Jewish cop might refuse to help you should you be a victim of a crime, should you be violating the Sabbath."

    The Jewish cop would not be working on the Sabbath.

    However, a Jewish business could refuse service for a host of other reasons.  On this point, I agree.

    I would like to raise one particular point about the Diarists appropriate rant that is likely overlooked - groups that are typically discriminated against are far less likely to discriminate.

    In addition to people in the LGBT community, people of non-Christian faiths, people who are not white, people who speak with a foreign accent, etc. are far less likely to discriminate.

    Ya'see, those of us who have been at the short end of discrimination are far more likely to follow the Golden Rule.

    If I may offer a quote from Gandhi, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    The people who author laws to memorialize discrimination are the hypocrites Jesus spoke of in Book of Matthew:

        "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

    And to my atheist and agnostic friends, there is a place in heaven for you too - as long as you follow the Golden Rule of love and kindness to those who are different and/or less fortunate.  A belief in God or organized religion is not required.

    As my Rabbi would say, "Shalom."

    •  Wishful thinking (12+ / 0-)

      "In addition to people in the LGBT community, people of non-Christian faiths, people who are not white, people who speak with a foreign accent, etc. are far less likely to discriminate."

    •  Jewish Cop (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean, samanthab

      There are plenty of sincerely believing Jews who practice the sabbath more or less stringently. Some work on the sabbath, but eat only by kosher rules; others the reverse. There is no requirement to belong to any specific sect, and sect membership often changes from generation to generation. There is no final word on orthodoxy; indeed, even orthodox Judaism has some of the strongest accommodations for individual conscience of any long lived religion (which has contributed to its longevity).

      So a Jewish cop walking a beat could draw the line at operating a machine on the Sabbath, and refuse to help you because you were driving.

      I also disagree with you that people mistreated in violation of the Golden Rule are less likely to violate it. It's well established that abused people are more likely to become abusers when given the chance. Jews are not immune to that sociological fact.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 07:24:00 AM PST

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      •  More to the point, a Jewish cop walking the (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RLF, SmallTownTexan, DocGonzo, mmacdDE, Matt Z

        beat on Tuesday could refuse to help you because you didn't keep the sabbath 7 weeks ago.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 07:39:07 AM PST

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      •  A Jewish bowling alley (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DocGonzo, yg17

        might not let anyone roll on the Sabbath.  

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:32:16 AM PST

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        •  Closed (0+ / 0-)

          Well, "not let anyone roll" is their prerogative - if they're closed to everyone. But unless they're actually a church (synagogue), they can't exclude some people while serving others.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:54:42 AM PST

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          •  Unless this bill got signed (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DocGonzo, barbwires, BYw

            and then, they COULD legally refuse to serve some people while serving others.

            There's nothing to stop a private business from closing on what the owners consider their sabbath. Chik-fil-a does that, and nobody cares.

            It's another thing to say that you're a Christian business, so you're not serving anybody you perceive to not be doing things your religion is against. Even though you're a business, open to the public.

            Even though you're a GOVT EMPLOYEE, you could just not deal with somebody you feel offends your religious sensibilities.

            This could be really bad if you worked in a social service agency, and your religion stated that out of women who were adulterers should be stoned. Or killed.

            •  I Agree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cassandra Waites

              One other horrendous consequence would be the government establishing an official test of what's a "real religion" far beyond the concrete (but still iffy and anti-Constitutional) IRS determinations. To stop me and my ilk from inventing an anarchist religion of sacred inconsistency for our convenience and eternal salvation.

              Because then the government would decide what is and isn't a religion.

              The best outcome from these dark days of grabby theocracy would be to finally recognize that religion has absolutely no standing in matters of law, except that nobody can be singled out by it for behavior that infringes no one else's rights.

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

              by DocGonzo on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:20:13 AM PST

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    •  Just The Facts - Please (5+ / 0-)
      ...people of non-Christian faiths...are far less likely to discriminate...
      People of some Christian faiths are far less likely to discriminate also. You may know that, but chose not to mention it...

      My point here is how divisive mixing ideological politics with faith can be, and this may be one unspoken intention of the bill's authors. Many right-wing Christians just love to condemn tolerant mainstream denominations and their members.  

      You meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion ~ And expect them to rise for the occasion...

      by paz3 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 07:52:30 AM PST

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    •  There was a case in California (0+ / 0-)

      a few years ago where an Orthodox Jew took a job as a BART operator, then sued to get Saturdays off in opposition to the standard seniority rules on the grounds that working the Sabbath violated his religion. The courts ruled against him on the grounds that he should have asked about the job scheduling before he took the job and turned it down when he found he wouldn't have Saturdays off for quite some time.

      So you could have a Jewish police officer working the Sabbath -- not Orthodox, but perhaps Reform I would think. But that cop wouldn't be apt to discriminate against a victim for violating the Sabbath since he, too, would be in violation.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 12:49:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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