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View Diary: Guns and Suicide: Wrap-Up (91 comments)

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  •  Are guns the cause? (11+ / 0-)

    Japan's suicide rate is twice ours, yet guns are for all practical purposes unavailable.

    There are many ways to end one's life that do not involve firearms.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 10:49:24 AM PDT

    •  I have often wondered... (11+ / 0-)

      if all guns mysteriously vanished away, would all these anti-gun partisans suddenly demand bans or restrictions on the next most common means of suicide? Because guns are not the most common suicide method for women, and I see a real lack of diaries at the moment calling for bans or restrictions on their most preferred method.

      A cynic might see this as merely using suicide as an anti-gun talking point rather than having any genuine concern for the subject as a whole.

      Oh wait, I am a cynic...

      •  Let's remove those guns and we'll see (4+ / 0-)

        Let us remove those guns, and then we will see how doctors, public health officials, and health advocates set their sights on that future #1 cause of suicides (grin).

        I admit I am a gun critic and favor greater regulation of gun sales and use.  The fact remains that over 19,000 Americans kill themselves with a gun every year, and that suicides are the #1 cause of fatal gun violence, not homicides.

        And I am happy to have gun enthusiasts take the lead in advocating for suicide prevention and ways to reduce the large number of gun fatalities in America in general, and the large number of suicides using a gun in particular.  

        The cynic in me thinks gun advocates seek to discount the large number of gun fatalities and gun suicides because they value their guns more than human life itself.

        Maybe you can be the person to advocate for suicide prevention and fewer gun suicides, and thereby show me that my cynicism is unfounded.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 11:58:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The name for what you want (2+ / 0-)

        might be Law and Policy for Women.

        What's stopping you?

        Go ahead, and start a group and invite people to write about topics that interest your readers. Kos is really generous that way.

        "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

        by LilithGardener on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 12:59:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks but no thanks (12+ / 0-)

          I just can't see starting a group that ostensibly cares about women, but makes a centerpiece of saying women in general should have much less legal access to booze, over-the-counter medicine and sharp objects. For their own good, you know.

          Because that sort of blanket attitude calling for restrictions on a group of whom the vast, vast majority are neither suicidal nor have violent intent towards themselves or others would be shamelessly biased, ethically unsupportable and reek of tiny-minded authoritarianism, and to me, a group advocating views that morally bankrupt has no place at a liberal site like Kos.

        •  Don't look now, but I think he just inferred that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          i saw an old tree today

          you are "shamelessly biased, ethically unsupportable, reek of tiny-minded authoritarianism, advocat[e] views that [are] morally bankrupt [and have] no place at a liberal site like Kos." This, in a well-reasoned piece in a F.L.A.P. diary series.

          12 people, rather than giving him an HR for insults (as I would have if I'd seen this in time), rec'd his comment. 9 of them are RKBA members, the other four (FrankRose, Kasoru, and 43north), are well-known for their pro-RKBA comments.

    •  The causes of suicide (7+ / 0-)

      Suicide is a pretty complex human behavior.  It is accurate to say that the cause of suicide is multi-factorial.

      As you point out, guns cannot be the sole cause of suicide.

      But guns are plentiful (here in the USA), easy to use, and highly lethal.  This is why more completed suicides in the USA are accomplished using a gun than all other suicide methods combined.

      Everyone knows that when you remove a lethal means from a suicidal person, that person is more likely to live than to die.  This is why psychiatrists recommend inpatient hospitalization for people at high risk for suicide.

      If we were to remove ALL the guns from the country, we would still have suicides.  BUT, we would have fewer suicides.  

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 11:43:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Picking at a fine point of your statement (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, happy camper
        Everyone knows that when you remove a lethal means from a suicidal person, that person is more likely to live than to die.
        I am not sure that I accept this statement as written.  I believe it would be correct to say that they are more likely to live, as there would be fewer lethal means for them to use, but logically to say removing one means implies that they are more likely to live that to die holds.  If their chance of death was X% to begin with, removing one means of death does not automatically reduce X to below 50%.

        Similarly, I think it is arguable whether or not if we removed all guns that we would in fact have fewer suicides.  We may, or we may not.  As with most complex things, of which this issue certainly is, it defies an empirical answer.

        "It's not surveillance, it's data collection to keep you safe"

        by blackhand on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 01:18:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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