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View Diary: Guns and Suicide: Wrap-Up (91 comments)

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  •  asdf (8+ / 0-)
    So, should we then make it easier for people feel that their lives are not appreciated to kill themselves by making guns widely available?
    Frankly I don't know what you should do.  I know what you should not do: Take away my freedoms because of those poor tortured souls.  My freedom of choice, my freedom to own an effective means of self-defense, my favorite recreational activity, and you're going to impose prior restraint on me because of the mentally ill?

    Thanks, but no thanks.  Suicide is a tragedy, as is gun violence, but neither warrants the imposition of prior restraint on hundreds of millions of people that have nothing to do with either of those tragedies.

    Indeed, I've have spoken to very ardent gun enthusiasts who have told me that on learning a family member is feeling suicidal, the gun enthusiast immediately goes to the family member's house and removes all the guns
    Imagine that, family looking out for family without the Government compelling them to do so?  Who'd of thunk it?

    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

    by Crookshanks on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 09:11:27 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No, I am NOT going to impose restraint on you (0+ / 0-)

      I have no wish to take away your freedoms.  I have no wish to take away your guns.

      Here is what I wish:
      1) I want you to fully understand that your guns can kill you, and your family members and those who visit your home.  You are free to smoke cigarettes, but you should understand that cigarettes can kill you and are harmful to those around you.  You are free to play with your guns, but you should be aware that guns can kill you and are harmful to those around you.

      2) I want you to fully understand that your gun is 20-30 times more likely to shoot you, a family member, or a friendly visitor, than it is to shoot a criminal intruder (and this is a conservative estimate!!).

      3) As a matter of national policy, I wish that ALL gun owners be licensed, be required to take a licensed training class, register all their guns with local authorities, and carry insurance to cover the cost of injuries caused by your gun.  I also wish that law enforcement be required to take blood samples to look for drug and alcohol use anytime law enforcement is called to investigate any shooting.  I also propose that states ally an additional tax on guns and ammo sales to help defray the medical costs of gun injuries currently borne by the state.

      None of these things will prevent you from keeping and bearing arms (unless you fail to adhere to the laws).  These ideas may require you to make some extra effort in order to play with your guns, but do not prevent you from enjoying your constitutional rights.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 07:14:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (7+ / 0-)
        As a matter of national policy, I wish that ALL gun owners be licensed, be required to take a licensed training class, register all their guns with local authorities,
        Unacceptable, for reasons discussed ad nauseum in other diaries.
        and carry insurance to cover the cost of injuries caused by your gun
        Unacceptable and pointless.  The former because it serves to put a financial roadblock in the way of a fundamental right, just like poll taxes did.  The latter because most everyone already has liability insurance, that covers negligent acts.  It's part of your homeowners/renters policy.
        I also wish that law enforcement be required to take blood samples to look for drug and alcohol use anytime law enforcement is called to investigate any shooting.
        A handful of States (Louisiana) already have implied consent laws for concealed carry.  I don't like such laws, for carry or driving, as I believe they run afoul of the 5th Amendment.  Here in New York they can draw blood after an accident resulting in bodily injury, but only with a court order or the defendant's consent.  That's a reasonable tradeoff, IMHO.
        I also propose that states ally an additional tax on guns and ammo sales to help defray the medical costs of gun injuries currently borne by the state.
        Another financial roadblock, thanks but no thanks.
        None of these things will prevent you from keeping and bearing arms
        Neither does New York City's $340 bi-annual pistol license fee, but I think we both know the intent of such legislation is to price poor people out of a fundamental right.

        There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

        by Crookshanks on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 07:51:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Rights and Regulations (0+ / 0-)

          The constitution says you have the right to keep and bear arms.  This has been affirmed by the SCOTUS, which at the same time, affirmed that laws that regulate gun sales and use are perfectly legal and fully constitutional.

          This is the law of the land.  States may legally regulate gun sales and use.

          Of course, these regulations are unacceptable TO YOU, the avid gun enthusiast.  But such regulations are entirely constitutional, and do not prevent you from enjoying your right to keep and bear arms.

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 08:07:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I see what you did there.... (6+ / 0-)
            But such regulations are entirely constitutional, and do not prevent you from enjoying your right to keep and bear arms.
            Nice attempt at setting up the straw man, for I never commented on the constitutionality or lack thereof of your desired legislation.

            Frankly I'm not too worried about it, because you don't have the votes to pass a single one of your proposals.  I don't need to win at the Judiciary when you can't even win at the Legislature.

            There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

            by Crookshanks on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 08:14:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  a minor tweak (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theatre goon, Kasoru, ER Doc, gerrilea
            Of course, these regulations are unacceptable TO YOU, the avid abortionist.  But such regulations are entirely constitutional, and do not prevent you from enjoying your right to abortion.
            Head on down to Texas or any other state that's destroying womens' reproductive rights. You'll fit right in.

            Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

            by Tom Seaview on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 08:43:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  crookshanks replied in detail, kindly. (5+ / 0-)

        I'll be less kind, more real-world.

        Here is what I wish:
        1) I want you to fully understand that your guns can kill you, and your family members and those who visit your home.  
        Treat every gun as-if loaded.  Those of us born before the video game era, know there's no "extra life" when a gun discharges.  
        bang most often = fatal.  That's fatal fatal, not "Play Again / Quit".
        2) I want you to fully understand that your gun is 20-30 times more likely to shoot you, a family member, or a friendly visitor.
        Of the thousands of people I know who carry and/or possess a firearm at home, none have qualified for a GunFAIL diary.
        Often, when we read GunFAIL, it includes police-involved shootings.
        Get back to me when we're going to demilitarize the police, never mind get to a point where we remove sidearms from our newly-reformed Metropolitans.
        3) As a matter of national policy, I wish that ALL:
        i. gun owners be licensed,
        ii. be required to take a licensed training class,
        iii. register all their guns with local authorities,
        iv. carry insurance to cover the cost of injuries caused by your gun.  
        No.
        Yes, adamantly.
        No.
        Pick one.  Gun insurance or the tax cited below.  Otherwise?  You're redlining firearms ownership.  Wealthy, whites, hip-hop moguls, and gangsters can afford firearms.  
        Poor, black, working two jobs, and being lawful - can't.  Got it.
        I also wish that law enforcement be required to take blood samples to look for drug and alcohol use anytime law enforcement is called to investigate any shooting.  I also propose that states ally an additional tax on guns and ammo sales to help defray the medical costs of gun injuries currently borne by the state.
        Let's start with the police.  Get this past the Unions, get this past the legislators who would also be financially liable for a self-medicating/intoxicated/prescription-addled cop shooting a civilian - and then talk to me.

        Personally?  I've never met a cop who felt somehow restricted in making a firearms-related arrest.
        SYG and/or Castle Law is mostly viewed as "lawyer stuff".
        Use or display a firearm, and you're going to be arrested.
        At least where there are sidewalks and street lights.
        You, the cops and the prosecutor can claim whatever before the court.

        City:
        Right now?  You're going to be locked-down for 72 hours per the USA PATRIOT Act before we have to bring you before a magistrate for a custody hearing. Meanwhile, we're going to execute a warrant and turn your life upside down.  Anything in your house you want to tell me about right now?  
        Guns?  Drugs? Kiddie porn?
        Write your computer and cell phone passwords down right now.  DO IT.
        Do NOT fuck with me.  
        I will make your life a living hell if you do.  What's your social security number?  Do you have bank accounts?  Where?  Investment accounts?  
        Write it all down.  NOW.

        When we get to the station, you can call an Attorney.  If you don't have one, you will be provided a Public Defender.
        You can stop answering questions at any time.  
        Do you understand this?  YES or NO.  
        Do you need an interpreter?
        YES or NO.

        If you stop answering questions, I'm going to tell the judge, and you will stay in jail until your trial, where I do everything possible to put you away for the maximum sentence.
        Are you going to cooperate, or do you want a lawyer?
        Hey, one of you guys get the leg irons, and waist chain.
        When is the TV crew getting here?
        I want a real good look at his face, as we put him in the car.

        A view of the wife and kids is probably too good to pass-up too.
        They're going to have a real good time of it, while you spend most of a year in jail, before trial.
        STILL want that lawyer?  
        STILL want to keep FUCKING with me?

        Out in the gollyhumps, a/k/a "flyover country":
        Where the cops take 45 minutes to drive to your residence or business?  Perhaps not so much.
        Least intervention:
        "We'll take the gun Hugh... you probably want to talk to a lawyer first thing in the morning.  The Detectives will be by, and you may be taken into custody.  Don't make us come looking for you."

        Likely intervention:
        "You're under arrest for assault with a firearm.  You have the right to speak with an attorney, if you can not afford an attorney one can be provided to you at no cost.  You have the right to refuse to answer all questions.  Do you understand this?"

        "You also will be viewed as more suspect, if you say nothing, and demand a lawyer before answering the Detectives questions.  Just so you know the rules of the game.  So you want to call a lawyer, or do you want to help solve this investigation and be home quicker?"

        Welcome to the real world.  The one where the dash cams and lapel cams "malfunctioned".  Shit technology.  Happens ALL the time.  More so every time some cops get jammed-up with said technology.

        Like an antibiotic-resistent bacteria, you learn to defeat the safeguards.

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