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View Diary: Connecticut's Individual Right to Arms - 190 Years Before Heller (59 comments)

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  •  Because Slavery! Derp Derp Derp nt (3+ / 0-)

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:54:41 AM PDT

    •  Let's see, threadjacking, DBAD... (2+ / 0-)

      Pick your reason for an HR.

      And here's a prediction.  I'll be told I need a 12 step program in 3, 2, 1...

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:04:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreeing With Diary Is A "Threadjack?" (0+ / 0-)

        And there comes the usual anti-RKBA HRs under the guise of being the "niceness police" who go around being "outraged" on behalf of others.

        If someone is threadjacking and hoping to drag this into the right margin for the rest of the day, that would be you, in addition to HR abuse.

        Too bad for you, I have actual work to do.

        But if you want to claim that you are the one being bullied and HR'd, nothing is going to stop you.  If not you, someone probably will.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:21:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think this was threadjacking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose, annieli

        but rather mocking would be threadjackers.  

        I would have been no different than me saying

        Because FREEDUMZ!!!  Derp Derp Derp.

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:23:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Alrighty. I didn't see it as agreeing with (3+ / 0-)

        diarist, but rather than let this devolve into a threadjack which is what I was trying to avoid, I'll remove my HR to avoid further discussion on the matter.

        I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

        by coquiero on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:35:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He could have taken a more traditional and less (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero, LilithGardener, WakeUpNeo

          Infantile approach, and either
          1. said so, or
          2. recommended the diary, instead he throws up a useless, baby phrase

          And blames you for not understanding him

          The HR made more sense than his comment

          Most of his comments today are at about the same level of comprehension, insults and advertising phraseology (I am so tired of adults as babies)

          Isn't it great he's back? another one to ignore, whilst he litters the landscape  

    •  Uprated for abuse (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bernardpliers, FrankRose, annieli

      I've seen that actual argument posted here on Daily Kos, and it's not trolling to remind the community that some of our less intelligent members believe it.

      •  If you can convince me (0+ / 0-)

        that this comment is intended to be an insult to the diarist, I will remove the uprate.

        •  See above (0+ / 0-)

          bernardpliers stated that he agrees with diary.  I'm not convinced the comment is an insult to the diarist or a clever attempt to threadjack here.  

          This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

          by DisNoir36 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:32:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Especially For Connecticut (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, FrankRose, annieli

        Which was not a slave state, but had regional warfare during a 60 year period spanning through the French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, and the War of 1812.  So yes, people wanted and needed guns for reasons other than slave patrols.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:35:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you for clarifying nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bernardpliers

          "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

          by LilithGardener on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:46:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  New York faced the same regional warfare (0+ / 0-)

          yet did not adopt any provision corresponding to the 2A.

          Why not?

          "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

          by LilithGardener on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:14:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe Someone Knows, Or We May Never Know (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener, FrankRose

            We might never know unless someone described a debate   in their correspondence or at some official meeting.  A lot of things were poorly documented.  It may have hinged on the personal opinions of a couple of politicians.

            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

            by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:31:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I believe they did (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bernardpliers

            I'm just not sure of what they were.  Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton for example had their famous duel in NJ, right over the river from NYC.  The reason was because Hamilton's son had been shot in a similar duel and he had pushed to make them illegal in NYC.  NJ had restrictions but they were not as vigorously enforced which is why typically men would sail across the Hudson to say Hackensack or Weekawken (where Burr-Hamilton duel took place) and duel there.  

            That was in 1804, so gun laws were already in place by then.  I'm just not sure what kind of laws and what kind of restrictions they imposed.  It could well be that these laws simply outlawed duels with guns.  

            This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

            by DisNoir36 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:52:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, NY state never adopted any RKBA provision (0+ / 0-)

              It remains one of half a dozen states that have no state constitutional right of armed self defense.

              "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

              by LilithGardener on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 07:46:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  CT history with guns (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, annieli, WakeUpNeo

          I'm writing a thesis paper on a particular Battle at Compo Beach in Westport where Benedict Arnold (of all people) led a bunch of minutemen to victory over the British forces.  The British had landed at Compo Beach in Westport and made their way up to Danbury, CT to destroy an ammunition depot.  On the way back local forces who mustered up on a minute's notice (hence the name minutemen) attacked the British and fought a famous battle in Ridgefield before the British fled towards their ships in Westport.  The whole back the local minutemen kept ambushing them and firing at them from advantageous points, engaging in a guerrilla type hit and run warfare.  The British were confronted by Arnold at Compo Beach before they could get to their ships and suffered heavy losses totaling about 10% of their already diminished forces.  The British never again ventured inland into CT after that throughout the rest of the war.  

          CT has a long history with arms.  However, CT also recognizes that these arms are deadly weapons and we should have certain restrictions on them while not entirely giving up our right to own them.    

          This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

          by DisNoir36 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:44:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Do you mean to say Connecticut copied (0+ / 0-)

      the language adopted by Louisiana because of slavery?

      Any thoughts on the court decisions and doctrines laid out in diary?

      "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

      by LilithGardener on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:30:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ridiculing The Idea Actually (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, FrankRose, annieli

        Here's a diary I keep meaning to publish.   For New England, the Hudson River was a natural route to French controlled  Canada, and after the French lost the French and Indian War, English controlled Canada.  Also, there were American attacks on Quebec overland from Maine.

        Gun Control And America's First World War (1754-63)

        We had militias long before the Revolution because America was dragged into a world war of empires.   Like many proxy wars such as Vietnam, much of this was guerrilla warfare, with atrocities, massacres, torture, genocide, assassination, false flag attacks, and killings that took place during truce talks.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        The Seven Years' War was a world war that took place between 1754 and 1763 with the main conflict being in the seven-year period 1756–1763. It involved most of the great powers of the time and affected Europe, North America, Central America, the West African coast, India, and the Philippines. In the historiography of some countries, the war is alternatively named after combatants in the respective theatres: the French and Indian War (North America, 1754–63); Pomeranian War (with Sweden and Prussia, 1757–62); Third Carnatic War (on the Indian subcontinent, 1757–63); and Third Silesian War (with Prussia and Austria, 1756–63).
        There have been claims that the Second Amendment was passed to protect slave owners,

        http://truth-out.org/...

        and Tom Hartmann cites llaws that were passed during the French and Indian war. And that just amounts to a brazenly  specious argument that amounts to an anti-intellectual poke in the eye with a blunt stick.  It's as if he's stretching to make the dumbest and most dishonest argument possible.

        For  the colonists, their main worry was being sucked into the raging conflict between the French and English over the North American continent.  "The Last Of The Mohicans" was set in 1757, if that helps people focus on what was really happening during that era.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:10:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Very interesting historical perspective (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TRPChicago, WakeUpNeo

          and a great topic for a stand alone diary.

          Of the 13 original colonies, 4 included a right to arms in their state constitutions before the US constitution was written.

          1776 North Carolina:  That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

          1776 Pennsylvania:  That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power.

          1777 Vermont:  That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State -- and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.

          1780 Massachusetts:  The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence.  And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

          "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

          by LilithGardener on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:28:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Western PA Was Like Vietnam In French Indian War (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener, annieli

            It was an ugly genocidal conflict where all sides committed mass atrocities against civilians. Keep in mind that a large chunk south of Pgh was still officially "Virginia."

            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

            by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 01:00:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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