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View Diary: Russia's Military Presence in Crimea and the Parliamentary Resolution (271 comments)

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  •  We have bases in Asia, Central Asia, Middle (21+ / 0-)

    East, South America, Central America, North Africa, Central Africa, and Southern Africa. Russia has troops in...?

    Do you really think the EU/NATO on Russia's border is the equivalent of Russia/Russian allied forces in Canada and Mexico? After a Russian financed and facilitated revolution in Canada and Mexico?

    Oh! Wait! There are no Russian forces on our Borders; nor of their allies. If there were, I'd say that's our business. But there ain't.


    Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

    by Jim P on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 02:05:39 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  So now having bases in allied countries is empire (11+ / 0-)

      But rolling your troops into your neighbors territory isn't.

      Got it.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 03:28:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We roll our troops on the other side of planet (7+ / 0-)

        in an unprovoked invasion based on lies resulting in the deaths of 100K or so civilians and heck we're going to nominate by acclamation someone who voted for it.  

        I'm supposed to worry about Putin after what we did to Iraq?

        •  You remind me of an old joke. (0+ / 0-)

          A man visits the Soviet Union, and is assigned a tour guide by the Russian Interior Ministry.

          The "guide" takes him to see the train station. It's big and new and very impressive. They spend an hour looking around.

          At the end of the hour, the visitor says, "You know, this train station is very impressive, but why haven't I seen any trains come by?"

          And the guide says, "But what about the Negroes in the South?"

          HEY, LOOK OVER THERE!

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 06:50:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  No, placing hundreds of thousands of troops (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldhippie, caliberal2001

        to kill locals in two nations (how soon we forget, eh?), and then bombing another score of nations from the air, and funding violent rebels in a few would be empire. Having bases where we end up backing dictators who boil their enemies alive in oil is not done from a love of humanity.


        Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

        by Jim P on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 05:09:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You remind me of an old Cold War joke. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Free Jazz at High Noon

          A man visits the Soviet Union, and is assigned a tour guide by the Russian Interior Ministry.

          The "guide" takes him to see the train station. It's big and new and very impressive. They spend an hour looking around.

          At the end of the hour, the visitor says, "You know, this train station is very impressive, but why haven't I seen any trains come by?"

          And the guide says, "But what about the Negroes in the South?"

          HEY, LOOK OVER THERE!

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 06:51:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  those bases are agreements Jim (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fcvaguy, msdrown, indie17, Tony Situ

      and those nations could end them if they wanted to. But they will not and you know why? Because then American troops wouldn't be there.

      Your myopic focus here is not doing you any good.

      Der Weg ist das Ziel

      by duhban on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 03:48:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You ignored the point about why do we have them? (2+ / 0-)

        And how many of those agreements smoothed by nice payoffs to the local poobahs? Or for training in how to kill the poobahs enemies most effectively. Like for instance Turkmenistan, where our friend literally watches his enemies be boiled alive in oil.

        We've routinely conducted acts of war against Iraq, Iran (we fund the groups blowing up buses and shit), Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Syria (funding those Democracy-loving rebels), Sudan, ....

        Who else does this? Name the other nation on Earth that has attacked any TWO other nations in the last 20 years.

        Why do we have to have troops everywhere on Earth, when no other nation has that need? Can you answer that? Burkina Faso is a threat to us, but not to, say Russia or the Netherlands?

        Think it through. It ain't about democracy; it ain't about national security; it ain't about the well-being of humanity. How anyone can not know at least that much, ... incomprehensible.


        Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

        by Jim P on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 05:05:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  US financed revolution in the Ukraine? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      duhban, Lawrence, msdrown, indie17

      Do you have evidence of a US financed revolution in the Ukraine? I'm aware of the support from Soros and Pierre Omidyar, but the sum of that support has been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, not the hundreds of millions that would have been required to create the revolution we saw over the past few weeks.

      What happened in the Ukraine over the past few weeks was a grassroots revolution, not unlike the Orange revolution, a desire for the ethnic Ukrainians to be Europeans as opposed to a Russian satellite, and causing friction with its ethnic Russian minority.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:08:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just throwing this out there. It's from a speech (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, katiec, Johnny Q, DavidMS

        Victoria Nuland fave in December:

        Since Ukraine’s independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations. We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine.
        http://m.state.gov/...

        If reality clashes with your belief, then the problem clearly is reality.--God

        by Flyswatterbanjo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:49:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I try not to use the Lord's name in vain. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cslewis, Lepanto

        When you say 'popular' does "Right Sector" mean anything to you? Find out when the 'popular' uprising suddenly got extremely violent -- more than cops-hitting-protestors-violent, which has happened right here in the USA and not that long ago -- but protestors with automatic weapons and military-level hardware.

        But what went on before: NGOs. 150 NGOs. Funded by, in part USAID, and a character who is a darling of the neo-Cons. The details are, well, very detailed, so read about it here. Long article. http://pando.com/...

        Of course, it would be astonishing that our military establishment, having long ago and publicly labeled Russia a long-term threat (the Ukraine is right next to Nevada, I think), would not try to pry Ukraine into the EU, then NATO sphere.

        Along those lines you'll remember that US marines were in Georgia training, and equipping them before that scuffle with Russia back in '06 or so.

        If you were a Russian, and you saw a position unfolding where nukes could be set up, by someone who has termed you a major enemy, a few minutes flight from Moscow, would you say, 'cool.'

        The question is: is this about EU Banker's interests and US/NATO Military Advantage, or about democracy and the people's well-being?

        I know what I'd bet. I ain't ever heard of the people's well-being actually ever being a priority in The Great Game.


        Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

        by Jim P on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:56:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What about the Ukrainian people's interest? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jim P

          Your comment completely fails to address that. Shouldn't the Ukrainians be allowed the right to self determination? If it means the split of Ukraine, I say so be it. I care about what the Ukrainians want, not what the US or Russia wants. If what remains of the Ukraine wants to be part of the EU, then so be it. If they want to adopt the Euro, so be it. And if they want to be part of NATO or not, so be it.

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 05:09:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Absolutely. What about the American people's (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            allenjo, oldhippie, caliberal2001

            interests? Shouldn't Americans be allowed the right to self-determination without the interference of billionaires and the -- entirely literal and precise -- criminal class of Big Bankers?

            There's my point.

            Number 1: we can't do shit about what Russia and Ukraine does. We can piss money away and make chaos and then our abilities disappear. Except to look like a Paper Tiger making meaningless threats.

            Number 2: Look at what we ain't talking about. "We've got trouble, right here in River City" as the song goes.

            Ukraine and Russia is a folly and a distraction for Americans.


            Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

            by Jim P on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 05:14:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No I don't understand your point (0+ / 0-)

              What does the American people and the problems we have with our own democracy have to do with the Ukrainians right to self-determination?

              Number 1: we can't do shit about what Russia and Ukraine does.
              Of course we can. And no, I'm not suggesting any military engagement. But, we have plenty of options available in unison with the international community.

              KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

              by fcvaguy on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 06:07:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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