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View Diary: Russia's Military Presence in Crimea and the Parliamentary Resolution (271 comments)

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  •  Well: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TXdem, bear83, Johnny Q

    If Russia is concerned about violence against Russian nationals by supporters of the new government, then let their government document those and publicize them on a news website like RT or the BBC.

    "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

    by Eternal Hope on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 02:57:14 PM PST

    •  hmmm... (1+ / 0-)
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      Ukraine army on full alert as Russia backs sending troops. BBC 40 minutes ago.

      Some images show bloody clashes between pro-Kiev activists and Russian supporters in Kharkiv.

      It doesn't help me to understand the situation clearly. How do you understand it?

      •  Putin: (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TXdem, Johnny Q, duhban, jayden

        Putin would be a lot more persuasive if he were to document the violence against ethnic Russians that he says is happening in the east. And publicize it. If what he's saying is true, then that is a reasonable demand that Ukraine protect its citizens in the eastern part of the country. We can't just take his word for it; he has to document these hate crimes that he says are happening.

        "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

        by Eternal Hope on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 03:54:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  hmm ... I think this article (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          native, Johnny Q, duhban

          covers who hates whom and who is scared for whom quite balanced. The Crimean Crisis We Should Have Seen Coming

          He says that the predominantly Muslim minority group feels "threats from the Russian-speaking population, or more concretely, from groups of Cossacks and other formations that are now being created under the conditions of political hysteria that we see now in Crimea. And [Tatars] see a threat to themselves from these groups—including a physical threat."

          At the same time, Semivolos adds, Russians in Crimea themselves feel cut off from their own homeland and see themselves and their culture as threatened by Ukrainian nationalism and Tatar claims in Crimea. "I think that the Russians correspondingly feel the same about all actions by the Crimean Tatars—as attacks," he says. "That is, it is a classic situation of conflict in which both sides feel they are defending themselves."

          Analyst Semivolos says the Crimean Tatars, as a nation, have a "post-genocidal mentality." "Crimean Tatars in many ways are still living through the experience of genocide to the present day. For them, in many ways, it isn't over, the process of returning, in many ways it is continuing," he explains. "That is why there is this perception of threats, of existential threats, threats to their lives, their physical existence. And they view all sorts of actions, even ones that Russians themselves consider defensive, but for Crimean Tatars, they are attacks."
          What exactly changed from the times where ethnic Russians and Tartars in the Crimea lived relatively well side by side. What caused the tensions to increase that much?
          •  Stalin, for one thing. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW, TXdem, duhban

            "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

            by Eternal Hope on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:14:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  that was in 1944 that Stalin deported (0+ / 0-)

              the tartars. So any Tartar under the age of 70 wasn't even born at that time.  Tartars could return to the Crimea as of 1989. So you mean the recent tensions are created anew because of Stalin's genocidal activities vis a vis the Tartars seventy years ago? That means today's younger Russians and Tartars have again to suffer because of the deeds their anchestors have committed?

              I can't quite believe it that this is the actual trigger? The tensions of course are rooted in that history, but the current eruptions I would think must have an additional trigger that is related to actual activities that have been going on in the last two to three years or so.

          •  Tatars were widely perceived as having (4+ / 0-)
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            TXdem, mimi, DavidMS, duhban

            collaborated en masse with the Nazi's.

            Good luck to you if you try to figure out how valid those claims were or weren't.  I have been unable to find anything remotely resembling independent scholarship on the question.

            As collective punishment, they were ethnically cleansed from the Crimea after WWII.  The mere fact of being Tatar got them spread to the four winds across the entire USSR, special attention being paid not to put enough of them anywhere in particular to really create communities in exile.

            The mere accusation of active collaboration landed them in punitive work battalions or in Gulgags in huge numbers.

            The clear goal was their destruction as a people.  

            Welcome to the Whole Foods of the blogosphere.

            by JesseCW on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:41:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, I read about that, but it's history, we can't (1+ / 0-)
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              change that anymore, nevertheless people use that history as justification to fight each other again two generations later. I hate that. But I admit it seems a human condition any kind of ethnicity is prone to engage in.

              •  would you be willing to so easily forgive (0+ / 0-)

                if it was your parents and grandparents that had been subjected to that? I don't necessarily disagree but I think you presuppose a level of cold rationality and logic that most people do not operate on.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:35:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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