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View Diary: With No Shame, U.S. Tells Russia Not to Invade Another Country on Fake Pre-Text (As it Did in Iraq) (408 comments)

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  •  Yes, he is speaking on behalf of the Obama (42+ / 0-)

    administration, but does not do so in a vacuum. It's not a "do over" each time the White House changes leadership from the international world's perspective.

    Oh, and this is an administration which -- unmentioned in the diary -- routinely violates the sovereign space of other nations for its own, specious assassination program.

    "If the Jew who struggles for justice for Palestine is considered anti-Semitic, & if Palestinians seeking self-determination are so accused...then no oppositional move can take place w/o risking the accusation." - Judith Butler

    by David Harris Gershon on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 10:42:31 AM PST

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    •  But it's OK if you use drones instead of men. n/t (9+ / 0-)
    •  This shows a lack of awareness of (13+ / 0-)

      international perceptions of the US:

      It's not a "do over" each time the White House changes leadership from the international world's perspective.
      The international community is certainly sees it as a do-over. Let's look at some polls of various country's attitudes towards the US over time.

      Favorable view of the US: 2008 vs 2013

      France: 42% vs 69%
      UK: 53% vs 60%
      Germany: 31% vs 53%
      Russia: 46% vs. 52%
      Japan: 50% vs. 72%

      Sorry David, the international community disagrees with you.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 11:57:38 AM PST

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      •  "International community" = Europe? (7+ / 0-)

        From your link:

        China: 41% vs 40%
        Egypt: 22% vs 16%
        Jordan: 19% vs 12%
        Lebanon: 51% vs 47%
        Pakistan: 19% vs 11%
        Turkey: 12% vs 21% (well, I suppose that's an increase)

        To be fair, you also have increases in Indonesia and Mexico (and South Korea went from 70 to 78%). But next time, please don't cherry-pick.

        "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

        by TealTerror on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 12:36:51 PM PST

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        •  There was no attempt to cherry-pick (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, sviscusi, emelyn, duhban

          I provided the entire link so anyone could feel free to peruse and make their own decisions.

          China has obviously shown no change in attitude. Egypt has consistently bounced between high teens and low 20s with the exception of an outlier in 2006.

          Are  you at all surprised Pakistan was higher than the Bush administration? or any of the numbers from the Middle East with the exception of the Palestinian territories which shows improving perceptions?

          The point remains. David's view of international perceptions of America are off the mark.

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 12:44:12 PM PST

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          •  You ignored all the numbers that didn't (8+ / 0-)

            fit your narrative. The fact that you posted the link, which 99% of people won't look at, doesn't stop your post from being cherry-picking in my view. YMMV.

            I don't follow the line of argument in the rest of your post. No, I'm not surprised by the numbers in the Middle East (and there are no "improving numbers" in the Palestinian territories; they've gone 13-15-18-16 in 07-09-11-13, which is probably even within the poll's margin of error). What's important is that, for a large part of the world, we didn't get a do-over after Obama's election, so DHG's view is accurate, at least for them.

            "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

            by TealTerror on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:05:12 PM PST

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            •  No I did not (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sviscusi, jiffypop, emelyn, duhban, nknight

              I made no attempt to cherry pick. Attempting to discredit my integrity doesn't take away from the overall change in international perceptions of America, or change the need to support the Ukraine people's right self-determination.

              KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

              by fcvaguy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:12:43 PM PST

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              •  I don't want to debate semantics (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead

                Whatever you want to call it, the fact is that you included only the numbers that increased and did not include the numbers that didn't. That does take away from your point about the "overall change in international perceptions of America."

                Neither I nor anyone else here has been arguing against Ukraine's right to self-determination so I don't know why you brought that up.

                "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

                by TealTerror on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:37:21 PM PST

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              •  You might not have made an attempt (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead

                But you chose only European countries and Japan, which gives a skewed view of the situation. Generally speaking the US is viewed as worse than it was in 2008. There was a massive spike after Obama's election, but that changed.

                If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                by AoT on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 02:51:23 PM PST

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                •  Do you have support for this? (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  emelyn, AoT, duhban
                  Generally speaking the US is viewed as worse than it was in 2008.
                  I suppose I could look for more global polls, but the one I posted certainly doesn't support that conclusion.

                  KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

                  by fcvaguy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 02:52:51 PM PST

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                  •  Based on the numbers available, no (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fcvaguy, DeadHead

                    I don't think that it can be shown either way. I take it back. There's not enough information to show that the US is more or less liked internationally. Although the drop from 2009 to 2013 is pronounced, but that's an entirely different thing.

                    If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                    by AoT on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 03:04:02 PM PST

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                    •  Yes, there was a surge in 2009 (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      AoT, duhban

                      for the exact reasons you stated. I tried to contrast Bush's last year numbers (2008) with most recent data (2013) and there is an overall marked improvement with the exception of some countries in the Middle East and Pakistan. Even Russians have a better view.

                      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

                      by fcvaguy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 03:07:04 PM PST

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    •  This administration also... (12+ / 0-)

      ... still drops bombs from drones in countries with which the US is NOT at war.

      I read/see videos of US leadership trying to tell Putin what to do or not do vis-à-vis invading Ukraine and feel my own face turn red in shame and embarrassment because it's obvious they're using pre-2000 standards..., and are ignoring that big eight-year gap of the Bushista administration and illegal and unconstitutional wars, and virtually everyone has ignored the fact that Obama retains Bushista personnel but never "changed" the warmongering Bushista policies once he took office in January '09.  Certainly, Obama has made no move to restore our rights!

      The US lost its moral high ground between 2000-'08, and because Obama didn't immediately keep his campaign promises, close Gitmo and end the Bushista wars and bombing invasions of other countries with which we are also not at war, nor give us back our rights, he has NO wiggle room to sit in judgment on what happens with other countries.

      They're not even comprehending or hearing their own words which brand them as hypocrites...!  [Puh-leeze, Obama and Kerry: STFU!  You're embarrassing us beyond our endurance levels!]

      It's enough to make a sane person wonder if we really have entered another dimension via a rabbit hole where up means down and left means right.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 12:28:42 PM PST

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      •  Maybe someone should give Putin a peace Prize.nt (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q, NonnyO, snoopydawg, SixSixSix

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:24:19 PM PST

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        •  Makes as much sense... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pablo Bocanegra, k9disc

          ... as giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize before he accomplished peace - or anything else - since he was nominated only after being in office for TWO WEEKS (the deadline for submissions ended two weeks after he was inaugurated).

          The lack of foresight in this instance was astonishing (Norwegians are normally far more clearheaded than this; I have to chalk it up to being grateful Dumbya was no longer the "leader of the (un)free world.")  Hindsight now knows Obama didn't close Gitmo, the US war in Iraq ended late, and we're still in Af-f##kinganistan, he has approved the drone bombings which have killed innocent people (some are in countries no one has declared war on), and neither Obama nor our Cretinous Congress Critters have made a move to give us back our rights by repealing, in full, all the illegal and unconstitutional laws that took our rights away from us (which still violates OUR civil rights) during the Bushista regime.

          How's that for "earning" the Nobel "Peace" Prize?

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 03:35:45 PM PST

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