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View Diary: G-7 leaders' statement on Ukraine (52 comments)

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  •  Asdf... (5+ / 0-)
    Its funny that you accuse the west of ...meddling in Ukraine. They aren't the ones whose army just invaded.
    It's a familiar argument. Similar to the statements in 2003 from those on the right who claimed the US was "forced" and "provoked" into attacking Iraq.

    In 2003 these lame arguments were made to defend and excuse the US's illegal invasion of Iraq. Now the same lame arguments are being made by some on the left to defend and excuse Putin's illegal invasion of the Ukraine.

    "Patients are not consumers" - Paul Krugman

    by assyrian64 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 05:31:55 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I have no interest in defending Russia or Putin. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      protectspice

      I'm just calling it like I see it. This is a geopolitical game where the U.S. and the West overplayed their hand.

      And BTW, the meddling in our part has very little to do with promoting freedom and democracy in Ukraine.

    •  big difference (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lepanto, Sparhawk, katiec, protectspice

      We invaded Iraq for the express purpose of regime change.

      There is no attempt at regime change in Ukraine. There is not even an actual invasion, not yet, anyway.

      If there were an actual invasion, we would be at war right now.

      All there are are troop movements within an area which has a basing agreement with Russia, and whose local government has asked for Russian assistance. There are also mysterious people who popped up taking over buildings and fighting against the new Ukrainian government--just as there were mysterious people fighting against the Yanukyovich government. The US funded separatists to topple the pro-Russian government; now Russia is unleashing its separatists to topple the pro-Western government. We can hardly complain when they turn around and do the same thing we did.

      Obama will not say there is an invasion. The G7 will not say there is an invasion. Because as of now, there isn't one.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 05:53:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Despite all the media hipe, as yet there has (0+ / 0-)

        not been a Russian invasion of the Crimea

        So far the number of Russian troops allowed to be stationed in the Crimea by the terms of the lease agreed with Ukraine and due to expire in 2042 has nowhere near being exceeded. In fact, though slightly increased, it's still significantly below the permitted number.

        We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

        by Lepanto on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 06:44:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Did the lease agreement also include Russia's (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LordMike, trivium, btfsilence, joynow

          right to surround and demand the disarmament of all of Ukraine's own military installations in Crimea?  And take control of all airports and communications centers?  That part must have been in REALLY small print, when they signed.  

          This is an invasion.  Doesn't make any of our invasions any less bad, but let's not look like idiots here.

      •  This turns out not to be the case (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trivium, btfsilence

        Russian forces have been surrounding Ukrainian military bases and demanding the surrenders of the military personnel, their weapons, and the bases. All are so far reported to be holding out, except that the newly appointed head of the Ukrainian Navy surrendered Navy headquarters, and has been charged with treason.

        Denis Berezovsky was earlier shown on Russian television swearing allegiance to the pro-Russian regional leaders of Crimea.
        That's war.

        Also, Russian military personnel and equipment are not bearing any insignia or other identification, and refuse to identify themselves. That's a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

        That's a war crime.

        If they didn't have all those nukes, they and the Russian Black Sea fleet would be toast in short order.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 08:53:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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