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View Diary: Forbes: 'The Invasion Of Crimea Is Crushing Russia's Stock And Currency Markets' (480 comments)

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  •  Here's where I'd be OK with XL pipeline.... (4+ / 0-)

    ....use it to send fuel to Europe to help break Russia's stranglehold on europe.

    Ukraine is a very big deal. They need our support.

    by LordMike on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:24:27 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  WTF ! (6+ / 0-)

      Can spokespersons for American Imperialism not see the irony?

      Can we not remember all the USA invasions "to protect American lives and property"?

      Have we so soon forgotten that the CIA and the Europeans were in a contest to see who could destabilize Ukraine first and/or most?

      Have the American imperialists totally forgotten the recent lessons of Julian Aussange and Edward Snowden?

      This thread reads like something in the commercial media where they are trying to sell things to old people who don't know the Cold War ended.

      I'm from Johnson City.

      by Al Fondy on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 08:04:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do any of those things change the fact that (7+ / 0-)

        Russia is clearly intent on not only invading, but annexing the territory of its neighbor, a territory whose integrity it guaranteed in 1994?

      •  He'll, what about the Saudis in Bahrain? (0+ / 0-)
        •  Yeah! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amyzex, joe from Lowell

          first you let Saudi's into Bahrain  and next thing its Russians in Crimea!

          Its incredible that no one could see the obvious consequence.

          •  So the US has called for sanctions (0+ / 0-)

            on Saudi Arabia?

            Because apparently we're now against these things.

            Not that we would be hypocritical.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 05:11:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You know that the Bahrain gov't invited the Saudis (0+ / 0-)

              Right?

              Confusion over the concept of consent: not just for the Republican War on Women anymore.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 06:02:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  As did the Crimean government (0+ / 0-)

                from all the reports I've seen. A government that is more legitimate than the government of Ukraine.

                If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                by AoT on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 06:54:07 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The Crimean government isn't sovereign. (0+ / 0-)

                  Crimea isn't a nation. It doesn't get to invite foreign powers into the territory of the nation in which it is located.

                  Which throws a bit of a monkey wrench into your legitimacy theory.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:04:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's an autonomous province (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MPociask

                    in a country that was at the edge of civil war. There is no legitimate government in Ukraine. This is part of Ukraine splitting, which is what everyone was predicting a week ago, in most cases as a reasonable resolution. The idea that Russia wouldn't get involved in a civil war on it's border strikes me as hopelessly naive.

                    If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                    by AoT on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:31:10 PM PST

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                    •  An autonomous province that does't have... (0+ / 0-)

                      foreign affairs authority.

                      It's also an autonomous province whose chief executive must be, by law, approved by the Ukrainian government, and no such approval was given for the self-proclaimed leader who issued the unauthorized call for a foreign power to invade.

                      If there is no legitimate government in Ukraine because it's in a revolutionary situation, then there goes your argument that the Crimean government had the legitimate authority to invite in the Russians.

                      And you seem to misunderstand; I don't find Russia's decision to throw its weight around by invading its neighbor surprising or unexpected. I find it dangerous and morally repellent.

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:52:42 PM PST

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                      •  And the elected president of Ukraine (0+ / 0-)

                        not that people here care about that sort of thing when it's Russia involved.

                        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                        by AoT on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 06:48:58 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Russia played it's cards wrong. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      AoT

                      I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent.  Also think there was a strong chance that Crimea reverted to Russia in the aftermath of the Ukranian problems.  

                      However, I feel Russia has badly bungled its hand here.  They should have stood back a while longer and let the problems in Ukraine fester.  Eventually pushing for a vote for Crimea's self determination.  

                      Instead he rushed in too soon, so it was too apparent that it was an aggressive act.  It changed the facts on the ground, but it also made it so Russia was clearly identifiable as a bad actor.  

      •  You remind me of an old joke. (0+ / 0-)

        An American visits Moscow in the 1970s. The Soviets assign him a handler to show him around and keep an eye on him. He takes the tourist to the new train station - a beautiful buildings of glass and molded concrete, with huge skylights, public art, the whole deal. He shows him around the whole place, pointing out the construction details and innovative design.

        After about an hour, the American says, "This station is really impressive, but I just realized, we've been here for an hour and I haven't seen any trains come."

        And the Russians says, "But what about the Negroes in the South?"

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 06:01:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Keystone XL is moving crude oil... (0+ / 0-)

      not natural gas.  It wouldn't really help make up for a loss in Russian gas supplies.  

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