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View Diary: The Crimean Conflict is a Global Crisis (254 comments)

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  •  Ukraine doesn't have nukes anymore (0+ / 0-)

    Not following your point.

    •  That's the point. (0+ / 0-)

      When they gave up their nukes, the world guaranteed their security.

      If they don't have the world's backing, and the US Nuclear umbrella doesn't mean anything, then other nations will consider obtaining nuclear weapons. And the ones who have them will never give them up.

      An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

      by OllieGarkey on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 06:56:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I doubt this adds to that calculus (0+ / 0-)

        At this point any nation trusting treaties is pretty naive.

        •  Wow. That's cynical. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JJ In Illinois

          Shouldn't we do everything we can to keep the agreements we've made with disarmed states?

          Not saying you're wrong, but don't we really have a duty to act, and respond with soft power?

          I'm not saying military intervention. That would be an unmitigated disaster.

          An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

          by OllieGarkey on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:17:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nuclear disarmament has been Obama's (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OllieGarkey

            one constant cause.  From his time as a Senator to this day, he has pushed for disarmament.

            For him to ignore the needs of the first nation to willingly disarm and totally rid itself of nuclear arms in exchange for protection would make his whole campaign against nuclear arms a joke.

          •  Of course we should (0+ / 0-)

            There's nothing we can do here militarily.

            IF you aren't cynical BY NOW, I can't help you.

            •  Armando. (0+ / 0-)

              No one is talking about Military options on DailyKos.

              No one.

              Not me. Not any comment I have read. I talked about what an absolute nightmare military conflict in Ukraine would be.

              I have repeatedly said in the comments that if this does kick off into a full blown war, we need to keep our troops as far away from it as possible. It will become an ethnic conflict the likes of which we haven't seen in our lifetimes.

              Are we so innoculated by the Bush administration that Action has to mean Military action?

              I laid out a clear roadmap of possible non-military actions.

              Because if one thing is clear it's that there is no possible military intervention. We can't send the Ukrainians guns, they'll wind up in the hands of neofascists. We can't send troops, because disinfo campaigns mean we'll be lied to and black flagged to oblivion. We can't send drones, because blowing up random people in afghanistan is one thing, but blowing up random people in a nation full of cell phone cameras will get someone accused of war crimes at the hague. See also the disinformation campaigns. We'll get tricked into blowing up a daycare.

              Action does not mean military action. Militarily, there's nothing we can do. And I haven't seen anyone on DailyKos disagree with that.

              An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

              by OllieGarkey on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 05:30:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  There's not much the USG can do alone (0+ / 0-)

                period.

                MY objection to your thought process is this arrogant assumption that there is something important the UsG can do to impact this.

                There isn't.

                You'e an unwitting American Exceptionalist in many respects.

                That's a dangerous attitude when it comes to imagining World Policeman rile.

                •  Not alone, no. (0+ / 0-)

                  But when we're talking about Nuclear Proliferation, it affects everyone.

                  If we can get other people on board, we can have an impact. And from what I'm hearing about what's going on inside Russia, it wont take much.

                  We are not without options here.

                  An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

                  by OllieGarkey on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 09:34:28 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  True but I think building trust is preferable. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OllieGarkey

          It's not going to be easy to stop the spread of nuclear weapons if everyone thinks they're better off having them for their security.

          "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

          by Setrak on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:50:15 PM PST

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          •  This doesn;t change that (0+ / 0-)

            Honestly, ask Saddam.

            •  According to you it doesn't. (0+ / 0-)

              You're making statements, not arguments.   And your statement appears to be that everyone should get nukes because logic and Saddam.  If you think the world is better off that way then to me that's incredible, but you are entitled to your opinion.

              "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

              by Setrak on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 05:37:06 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh well (0+ / 0-)

                Excuse me for not making the leqrned arguments you are offering.

                You have to be kidding. You think there is something substantive to what you are saying?

                BTW, nice falsehood abotui what I said.

                You folks are so filled with your self righteousness that you are blinded by realitiy.

                BTW, the US needs to build consensus, not issue declarations. On EVERYTHING, not just nukes.

                But frankly, I find discussing the realities of the world with self righteous blowhards not interesting.

                I could always just watch Fox News for this perspective.

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