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View Diary: The Budapest Memorandum is not a treaty for crissake (65 comments)

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  •  Our assurance was that we would not attack Ukraine (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim P, Reston history guy

    not that we would defend them.

      •  Please don't link to a nut like larouche (6+ / 0-)

        there are plenty of other links to the document.

        I've read it carefully and its quite clear what our assurances are should Ukraine be attacked: it is a matter for the UN Security Council. Not us.

        •  It references the CSCE.... (0+ / 0-)

          ...which is incorporated by reference. Have you read those too?

          •  Yes, quite clearly. (3+ / 0-)

            While Ukraine never signed the Helsinki Accords, the memo clearly states, as the Accords did, that the United States would RESPECT the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Well, we have done so. We have not occupied or attacked it.

            But what it does not do, which a mutual defense agreement would, is spell out that the United States would DEFEND such integrity.

            •  You're reading it wrong. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kharma

              The memo has a specific plank dealing with military intervention. So, it would be redundant to read the "territorial integrity" plank as solely relating to an agreement not to invade or use military force in a way contrary to Ukrainian sovereignty.

              Therefore, it is an implicit agreement -- especially given that it was also signed by Russia -- to guarantee Ukraine's territorial integrity from outside actors, especially the signatories of the memorandum.

              In any case, it is open to enough interpretation to legally justify military action by the US to defend Ukraine. Which, in any case, is probably moot if the Ukrainian interim government and parliament specifically asks for US help. Clearly, it is legally permissible under international law to come to the aid of a state that is requesting help.

              The only importance if the Budapest memorandum is that it gives the US grounds under international law to intervene. Something it did not have in Syria.

              •  No, you wish I were reading it wrong. (2+ / 0-)

                Here are the parts that deal with military intervention:

                The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
                Seek action from the UN Security Council to provide assistance. We've done that.

                And there is this:

                The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.
                We promise not to nuke them. We haven't.

                That's about the size of it. I'm not reading it wrong, I'm reading it quite clearly. Because if it were a mutual defense pact, it would read a lot more like Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty and not like what you see above.

                •  Also, the remedy proscribed in the Memorandum (0+ / 0-)

                  is to "consult".

                  6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.
                  •  trivium: you mean "prescribed" (2+ / 0-)

                    It's one of those awful flukes of English that "proscribed" is pretty much the opposite. But it's better than "sanction," which can mean either to endorse something or to punish it.

                    I'd say your piece and the first piece bbb quoted both could be considered 'remedies' of sorts; either way, they obviously don't commit the U.S. to unilateral military intervention or much of anything else.

                    "Democracy is a political system for people who are not sure they are right." —E. E. Schattschneider

                    by HudsonValleyMark on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 09:51:32 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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