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View Diary: Why did Obama let this happen, and other questions on Ukraine (313 comments)

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  •  Let me get this straight: A month ago... (8+ / 0-)

    The entire nation of Ukraine was firmly inside Russia's breast pocket.

    Today, there is a crisis over whether Russia will hand onto the Crimea as the rest of the country reorients itself to the west.

    And the question in the nation's two most important op-ed pages is "Who lost Crimea?"

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 09:50:16 AM PST

    •  Your assumption (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe from Lowell
      Today, there is a crisis over whether Russia will hand onto the Crimea as the rest of the country reorients itself to the west.
      is that Putin is done and doesn't plan to seize 'the rest of the country'. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

      Election Day is Nov 4th, 2014 It's time for the Undo button on the 2010 Election.

      by bear83 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 10:01:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it is. Look at the Georgia example. (5+ / 0-)

        I remember, when he send the tanks into South Ossetia after the Georgian government's incursion, how many people were assuring us that he was going to keep rolling to Tbilisi. It was the height of naiveté to think that he'd stop in the Russio-philic portion of the country.

        But that's exactly what he did.

        Whether he goes for the eastern half of the country, which voted for the pro-Russian candidate, is still an open question, but the west is clearly gone.

        The bottom line here is that this episode represents a net loss of influence for Russia. They're trying to hang on to what they can, but the editorialists are writing as if it's the west losing something.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 10:07:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Pundits & Politicians: find Ukraine on a map (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Once you've done that you can proceed with your verbal diarrhea.

      If you point to an area inside the current borders of Russia, you are never allowed to talk about foreign policy ever again.

    •  Not Straight (0+ / 0-)

      A month ago, only Yanukovych and his cronies were firmly inside Russia's breast pocket. Presumably millions of Ukrainians were satisfied with choosing Russia over EU, but they were mostly silent while millions either stood in protest or rioted in the streets.

      Today all of Crimea is firmly inside Russia's military control. Including presumably millions who are terrified they're being annexed away from their country Ukraine.

      Yes, the question is "who lost Crimea"? It is lost, even if just for now, to a Russian invasion, and it  should not be. The question is a good one.

      Another good question is why you think it's OK that Russia just annexed a major region of its neighbor with a military invasion, while the US and UK who agreed to protect it from that let it happen.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 10:46:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What the fuck are we supposed to do? (0+ / 0-)

        Have you forgotten that Russia has nuclear weapons? Enough to turn the entire planet to charcoal? We CAN NOT fight them, any more than they can fight us. Mutually Assured Destruction means that war between the superpowers is impossible. It's pure suicide.

        This is going to be just like Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s, where the US bleats "oh no you can't do that!" and the Russians say "oh yeah? Stop us."

        Sorry, Ukraine. You're not worth the thermonuclear extinction of all humanity.

        "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

        by DarthMeow504 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 10:40:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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