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View Diary: Nobody Is Going To Go To War With Russia (214 comments)

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  •  We don't know that (7+ / 0-)

    We don't know if this will lead to war or not. We don't know what is going on in the head of Pooty-poot. I feel confident that the Obama administration is doing all they possibly can to find a diplomatic solution and am damned glad that the likes of Palin or Bachman or Louis Gohmert or any one of the thousands of other Republican ass wipes is in charge. because as crazy and unpredictable as Putin is, the last thing we need is leaders engaged in a kind of brinkmanship poker with nuclear arsenals as was done under Saint Ronald Reagan.

    This is some serious shit and we should not minimize the threats. That's what they are supposed to teach in military academies. In chess they say, "the threat is greater than the execution". In chess there are no weapons capable of destroying the entire planet.

    •  Nobody knows anything for certain about (22+ / 0-)

      the future. One can make predictions based on probabilities. The key issue here is whether the western powers are prepared to oppose Russia militarily over Ukraine. If Putin can accomplish his essential objectives, he is certainly not going to start a war just for the hell of it. My prediction is that the west is not willing to go to war over Ukraine. They will make a show of imposing some economic sanctions which likely won't have a crippling impact on Russia.  

      •  There will be a settlment (6+ / 0-)

        A little read (apparently) piece in Al Jazeera...

        It's what the principal players, Putin and Merkel, want:

        The Russian president has used taut diplomacy throughout the crisis. U.S. President Barack Obama telephoned Putin to heatedly discuss the Crimean events for 90 minutes on Sunday. However, my sources tell me that the important telephone conversations these last days are between the German-speaking Putin and the Russian-speaking Merkel. Putin has assured Merkel that Russia aims to avoid a fragmented Ukraine and that restoring a legitimately elected government in Kiev is the way forward.

        A week ago, the EU brokered an agreement that called for Ukrainian elections as early as May 25. A handful of candidates aspire to the presidency, including the Washington-favored Fatherland Party’s interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and the Berlin-favored Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Report Party’s Vitaly Klitschko, a former champion boxer.

        The article is worth a read.

        It always seems impossible until its done. -Nelson Mandela

        by chuckvw on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:52:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Putin's not stupid, and neither are western (25+ / 0-)

      leaders.  Russia will have a free hand in Crimea, and there's very little anyone can do about it.  They'll live with sanctions and moves by the U.N. to condemn their actions until the next opportunity comes to "reset" the relationship.  All powerful nations behave this way, just as we did in Iraq.

      "Because I am a river to my people."

      by lordcopper on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:00:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Putin is an murderous asshole and a dictator. (10+ / 0-)

      He is neither crazy nor unpredictable.

      Welcome to the Whole Foods of the blogosphere.

      by JesseCW on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:03:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kim Il-Jong he's not (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Louisiana 1976

        He has an ego, though. I'd say in terms of not-logical-to-outside observer behavior, he's more a Dubya.

        Purity is for primaries; in the general, our worst are better than their best.

        by blue aardvark on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:07:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  except that unlike Dubya (10+ / 0-)

          he's a thug with an actual functioning brain.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:27:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Nah. W was never as strategic and he never (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark

          managed to so corrupt American society as to create the kind of fervor for dictatorship as exists in Russia at the moment (although he legitimately won the 2004 election, it wasn't by large numbers, statistically, whereas if you put Putin up for a free and fair election, he'd probably win 60% of the vote, maybe even larger numbers amongst Slavs).  And while nothing at all will cause me to forgive him for Iraq, I do think that he sincerely believed (idiotically, illogically, and lacking even the slightest hint of self-doubt - but sincerely) that Hussein was the greatest threat to the world.

          Putin is a plain old 19th Century expansionist.  He sees an opportunity to steal land for Mother Russia, he steals it with force, goddamn the local population, goddamn international law and peace, and goddamn Russia's long-term standing in the world.

          I wonder if W foresaw this particular moment in history when he looked into Putin's soul.

          "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

          by auron renouille on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:55:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  You don't know that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike, FG

        You don't know if he is crazy or not. At times he seems reasonable. Other times, he seems power mad. And maybe you would have predicted the Russians would ross that border, but I certainly didn't see it coming.

        The point is, it is always foolish to underestimate your opponent. Chess 101.

      •  Agreed. Putin's ambition is to restore Russia (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mconvente, corvo, auron renouille

        as a great world power.  

        He prefers to be feared, he does not see love or admiration from the world.

        As Russia has not been effective at becoming a world power through business activity, beyond oil and gas, they are taking the path of military power and control of neighboring countries.

        The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

        by nextstep on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:35:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Best Outcome Would Be (0+ / 0-)

        if the Russian people who are clearly fed up with Putin's dictatorship can get rid of him.

        "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

        by Superpole on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 04:37:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Seems to be a minority of Russians, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, boudi08

          so I'm not sure how that can be accomplished.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 05:52:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Rudy Giuliani thinks Putin is a 'leader'. He seems (0+ / 0-)

        to have missed the asshole and dictator aspects of the shirtless horseman. Of course Rudy put his command post at the bottom of the two biggest terrorist targets in NY and bought radios for his fire department that didn't talk to the radios the cops had. So when he praises Putin and belittles Obama we should get a 2nd opinion from Bernie Kerik.

        In fact maybe Rudy, Old Man McCain, and all the other proven fools should just shut the hell up.

    •  What threat? (15+ / 0-)

      The US faces no threat.  Western Europe faces no threat.   You start generating threats when you start infringing on the interests of major powers.  Russia has an interest in the Crimea.  We don't.

      •  Everyone, though, has an interest in principles (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        matador, randomfacts

        The principle being that the way for neighbors to resolve territorial disputes is not for the stronger to move its army into the terrain of the weaker.

        People sometimes do get away with that (see: Tibet), but shouldn't.

        Purity is for primaries; in the general, our worst are better than their best.

        by blue aardvark on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:09:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Eastern europe faces a grave threat... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        auron renouille

        Don't say that there is no threat... The people being invaded right now face a grave threat.

        Ukraine is a very big deal. They need our support.

        by LordMike on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 11:37:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Threat is not direct (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, Johnny Q

        but it is to the credibility

        Ukraine gives up its nukes in exchange for respecting its territory and gets fucked.

        If you're Iran, what are you thinking?

        •  I'll bet that idea went through Gaddaffi's mind (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q, corvo, debedb

          the moment he was buggered with a sharp stick.

        •  Yes, that's what concerns me. (0+ / 0-)

          The West has really let down Ukraine, particularly Europe.  We can't do anything militarily today, I recognize that, but imagine if the EU hadn't half-assed it and fully incorporated Ukraine and if it were under NATO's shield and NATO troops were housed there, even in token numbers.  Russia has nothing to fear from a navy with ten ships but they're not going to fuck around with all of NATO because that kind of war would destabilize Putin's kleptocracy.

          It's veering slightly off-topic but this ought to be a lesson to the EU of the costs of phoning it in when it comes to the Eastern republics and their membership - neither the EU nor NATO are going to be able to change the course of events in these kinds of circumstances if they're not even showing up.  It's time to start showing up and for the EU to begin to sincerely incorporate Eastern Europe and, once Erdogan is gone, Turkey.  It's also time for Germany to figure out a viable way to disentangle its most dangerous economic links to Russia; Russia has the German economy by the throat and Merkel knows it.

          "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

          by auron renouille on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:08:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who do you think is going to pay for that? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, blueoasis

            Do you think NATO is free?  Do you think the commitment to go to full out world war should be made to every nation regardless of their ability to contribute to the alliance or how dangerous their own actions may be to the alliance?  

            NATO isn't the EU. If the EU wants to actually turn itself into a cohesive major power able to defend its members without our assistance that's one thing, but to just keeping adding nations to NATO and committing Americans to defending them as if they were Iowa is something else again.

      •  That's when people start talking morals (6+ / 0-)

        human rights, etc. But it's really fucking embarassing when the U.S. talks about human rights/morality in foreign policy these days.

        What was that thing, that Guantanamo Bay thing? Didn't we have something called, I dunno black sites and don't we kill unarmed people who've never done anything to us by remote control, including our own citizens, women, and children, and didn't we invade a sovereign nation for around 10 years just because?

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:48:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Damn right the hypocrisy is (6+ / 0-)

          Quite embarrassing. Look at the following research: Among sources used, beside news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corp History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug, 1982), "Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad, 1798-1993" by Ellen C. Collier of the Library of Congress Congressional Research Service, and Daniel Ellsberg in Protest & Survive.

          Fair use copyright permission for the below: And pls note - some of these military activities are decent ones - such as our 1948 US Air Force dropping food and supplies to Berliners. Also certain involvements were provoked and so our involvement could be morally justified. (World War II participation; rescue attempts for personnel held in Iranian Embassy.)

          A brief summary of nations where we have been less than peaceful and friendly in our interactions:
          With our utilization of the National Guard
          offshore shows of naval strength
          reinforcements of embassy personnel
          the use of non-Defense Department personnel (such as the Drug Enforcement Administration)
          military exercises
          non-combat mobilizations (such as replacing postal strikers)
          the permanent stationing of armed forces
          covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role
          the use of small hostage rescue units
          most uses of proxy troops
          U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes
          foreign or domestic disaster assistance
          military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat
          civic action programs
          army, navy and marine attacks and massive weaponry deployed
          and many other military activities.

          Among sources used, beside news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corp History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug, 1982), "Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad, 1798-1993" by Ellen C. Collier of the Library of Congress Congressional Research Service, and Ellsberg in Protest & Survive.

          Fair use copyright permission for the below: And pls note - some of these military activities are decent ones - such as our 1948 US Air Force dropping food and supplies to Berliners. Also certain involvements were provoked and so our involvement could be morally justified. (World War II participation; rescue attempts for personnel held in Iranian Embassy.)

          Turkish newspaper urges that the United States be listed in Guinness Book of World Records as the Country with the Most Foreign Interventions.

          COUNTRY OR STATE Dates of intervention Forces Comments

          SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops use gatling guns on 300 Lakota Indians, many of them children, the sick and the elderly, at the Massacre at Wounded Knee. This military activity serves as an unofficial marker for the end of the US military's genocide of the American Native Peoples. They lost; "we won!"

          ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.

          CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.

          HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.

          IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.

          HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

          CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed. Republican Party buys ads in Chicago mainstream newspapers, decrying the violence by the Establishment and calling for support for the workers.

          NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

          CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War

          KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

          PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

          NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.

          CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies, including the USA. 140,203 casualties on the Chinese side. Remember, this military action came about due to the Chinese rebels "The Boxers" killing around 200 Protestant missionaries who had come from the USA. .

          PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops The Phillippines are seized from Spain, with our military killing 600,000 Filipinos. Many of the dead are civilians; others are imprisoned in concentration camp style system of open outdoor prisons.

          CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

          PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain,
          1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

          MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

          NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

          SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.

          NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.

          IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

          OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

          PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.

          HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.

          DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 We put in our troops - U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

          KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land during Russo-Japanese War.

          CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.

          NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

          HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua

          PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.

          NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto
          .
          HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

          CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

          CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

          PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.

          HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

          NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerrillas

          MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.

          DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

          COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.

          MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.

          HAITI 1914-34 Troops, and bombing and then a 19-year occupation after revolts.

          TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush "Plan of San Diego" Mexican-American rebellion

          DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.

          CUBA 1917-33 US Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate. As a result, Cuba comes under the rule of ruthless landlords, a dictator and the American Mafiosa.

          WORLD WAR I 1917-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, our entire military fought fought Germany for 1 1/2 years. However the participation of our allies was for a full three years prior to our involvement.
          The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 37 million.

          RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five military landings to fight Bolsheviks. Naval bombardment.

          PANAMA 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections.

          HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.

          YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

          GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.

          WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, on account of a bombing, Army intervenes against mineworkers.

          TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.

          CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.

          PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.

          CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.

          EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.

          WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.

          WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germany for 3 years; first nuclear war. A total of fifty million people are killed world wide as the result of this horrendous war.

          DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.

          IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.

          YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.

          URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.

          GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
          Union leaders, Communists and "sympathizers" are rounded up and killed.

          GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift. US Air Force delivers needed food and supplies to Berliners. This keeps the Western portion of Berlin free from the Soviets.

          CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

          PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

          PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

          KOREA 1951-53 (-?) America's forgotten war. Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases. It is estimated that between 2,500,000 and 2,730,000 civilians are killed by military actions on both sides. American DoD states that the U.S. military suffered 33,686 battle deaths, along with 2,830 non-battle deaths

          IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah. Shah becomes a most bloody dictator, using secret police spying and brutal torture and execution methods on his opponents, until his removal in the late 1970's. Official sources state that his regime murdered some 16,000 people. This situation is a case of the victor in the 1953 coup getting to write the history books. The Shah's regime is credited for increasing education, and sanitation, health programs etc for his nation, in contrast to what happened to the people of Iran after the extemist Muslims took over the nation in 1979. But no one will ever know what the democratically elected prime minister, Dr. Mosaddeq, would have done for the nation, as he was ousted by the CIA after only a short stint in office.

          VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against siege.

          GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

          EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.

          LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Army & Marine occupation against rebels.

          IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

          CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

          PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

          VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million Vietnamese killed in longest U.S. war; five million others are wounded or left homeless. Cost to us in terms of flesh and blood - over 50,000 troops that die directly, tens of thousands more live on the streets, victims of PTSD and mental disorders caused by their involvement in the war. Also, atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969. Entire financial cost of the war - perhaps 20 billions of dollars (A fortune back in the day.).

          CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

          GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

          LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.

          CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.

          IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.

          PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

          INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

          DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.

          GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

          DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.

          UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

          CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

          OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

          LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

          SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas. Activities conducted under auspices of FBI and CIA occur in Wisconsin reservations as well. Indian leaders are often found "suicided" - stabbed or shot in the back, but the local police continually ruled deaths suicides.

          MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

          CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected socialist president.

          CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down. Over the next few years, the American government sides with Pol Pot, the head of the infamous killing fields operation where 3 million people are killed. IOn UN vote after UN vote, our UN people side with Pol Pot.

          ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

          IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

          LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

          EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops and advisors, overflights and aid of anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash. These activities were never authorized by Congress but instead funded by the selling of drugs by the CIA and the conversion of those monies to arms and weaponry for the Status Quo.

          NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution. See above.

          LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks. Our ally in this fight, Israel, is believed to have killed at least 20,000 people, many of them children, during their offensive which took place at the same time.

          GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing and Invasion occur four years after revolution. It should be noted that it took a huge American military intervention to succeed against a tiny island with limited military and few people even living there.

          HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

          IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

          LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov't.

          BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

          IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.

          LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

          VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops sent to quell to Croix unrest after storm.

          PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup. Fortunately for the people of the Phillipines, the Marcos regime was ended by the Phillippinos who resisted Marcos, and a better form of government replaced their repression.

          PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed. Many foreign journalists believe closer to 10,000 people were killed during the US offensive. Many of these people were civilians.

          LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

          IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Activity. During the actual hot war, 540,000 US troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel. Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

          KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

          IRAQ Jan 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions. During times of the sanctions, 50,000 Iraqi children die each year.

          LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.

          SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

          YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

          BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

          HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

          ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

          LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

          ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

          SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

          AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps that were then used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

          IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
          one of his CIA buddies were sent over to Yugoslavia tot ell the President of the nation that he ahd the right to do as he pleased with regards to his internal affairs and the Albanians.

          YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo. By the way, back in the early 1990's Armitage and

          MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.

          AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.

          YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.

          PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.

          COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.

          IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles The Saddam regime is toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases. At the time of the invasion, called "Shock and Awe" some 25 million people called Iraq home.
          Before this invasion, Iraq was a nation that promoted equality for women, had high standards of education, with many in the populace speaking more than two languages. It was also a nation that promoted religious tolerance, with Christians, Jews and atheists living in peace with their Muslim neighbors.
          Since the Spring 2003 invasion, close to one million civilians have been killed, in the civil unrest following the overthrow of the dictators regime, with the resulting divisions along line of Sunni/Shia'a, Christians and Jews and atheists needing to leave the country. Some four million people have left Iraq, never to return.
          The American military lost close to 4,500 troops in this war. It was also a war where due to innovations in medical treatment and aid, military casualties were able to survive the initial assault on their bodies, but lived with either terrible loss to themselves in terms of amputations, or else terrible problems due to head injuries they survived but will not overcome.

          LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.

          HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.

          PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.

          SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.

          SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq and kill 8 Syrian civilians

          YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels

          Also in a Huffington Post article dated mid January 2014, an article reports that as many as 2,500 Pakistani civilians have been killed by US drone attacks over the last few years. It should be mentioned that we have never had a declaration of war from either Congress or the President, regarding Pakistan.

          •  Boy, do I hate rec'ing this, but truth is truth. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo

            Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:15:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Well, one thing is CERTAIN... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kcc

      Obama will be blamed for whatever happens.  And, as a corollary, the House will offer to NOT attack Russia if Obamacare is withdrawn.  

      Through the Right Wing Optic, the world revolves around Obama and Obamacare.  Everything else is a weapon to use against him.

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