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  •  Why is it none of our concern (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erratic, doroma, Hey338Too, duhban

    just because the people who are in harm's way happen to be on the wrong side of some imaginary line on some map?

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:45:06 PM PST

    •  If you are arguing... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, gulfgal98, aliasalias

      that you think it is of our concern, and of your concern, then you of course have all the right in the world to feel like that.

      Would you care to share your opinion as to how you feel the US should proceed now that you feel it is our concern?

      I believe is none of our business, and I believe the US has been engaged in a destabilization campaign in Ukraine, and in a isolation campaign against Russia.

      So we have different opinions.  I've based mine on lots of reading about the subject from many different sources.  You may have done the same, of course.

      Boston Globe: US a full partner in Ukraine debacle
      FROM THE moment the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the United States has relentlessly pursued a strategy of encircling Russia, just as it has with other perceived enemies like China and Iran. It has brought 12 countries in central Europe, all of them formerly allied with Moscow, into the NATO alliance. US military power is now directly on Russia’s borders.


      Some policy makers in Washington have been congratulating each other for a successful American-aided regime change operation in Ukraine. Three factors converged to produce the overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych. First was his own autocratic instinct and utter lack of political skill, which led him to think he could ignore protesters. Second was the brave determination of the protesters themselves. Third was intervention by the United States and other Western countries — often spearheaded by diplomats and quasi-covert operatives who have been working for years on “democracy promotion” projects in Ukraine.

      •  How to proceed is a very thorny question (4+ / 0-)

        that's way above my pay grade. Though given the audience, I feel I need to state the obvious and say that either direct or indirect military intervention should be out of the question unless something radically changes and a hot war expands outward from the region.

        But just because the situation is complicated and thorny is hardly an excuse to decide not to care about what's going on, just as much as if it happens to be within the political boundaries of a nation we don't have a close alliance with.

        It's that apathy that leads to us happily trading in slave-harvested cocoa and conflict diamonds, standing by while 800,000 or more Rwandans are murdered, or any number of tragedies.

        Shrugging it off as none of our concern is the height of callous apathy.

        Speculating though -- I think barring swift diplomatic resolution, economics are a good card to play right now. Russian stocks have already plummeted; that can't be fun for Russia. The Russian 1% taking it in the shorts ought to be a motivator, yeah?

        But diplomacy should always be the first option.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:14:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm glad you're a caring person. I'm sure you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, aliasalias

          care about the slave-like conditions of workers in third world countries making stuff for US multinational corporations, or about the atrocities going on in some countries in Africa... There is so much to be caring about.

          You're happy that Russian stock plummeted, it seems.  You don't think there are going to be consequences for us, right?

          Again, I really recommend you do a little reading...

        •  Agreed. Crimea also depends on (3+ / 0-)

          mainland Ukraine for power and water:

          Vladimir Putin is miscalculating how easy it will be to control a Crimean mini-state

          Most of the Crimea is basically a desert, with less annual rainfall than Los Angeles. It is impossible to sustain its 2 million people—including agriculture and the substantial tourist industry—without Ukrainian water. Current supplies aren’t even enough. In Sevastopol, home of the Black Sea Fleet, households get water only on certain days. In fact, on Feb. 19, when snipers were shooting protesters on the streets of Kiev, Sevastopol applied for $34 million in Western aid (note the irony) to improve its water and sewer systems.

          The Crimea’s dependence on Ukraine for nearly all of it electricity makes it equally vulnerable to nonviolent retaliation. One suggestion making the rounds of the Ukrainian Internet is that the mainland, with warning, shut off the power for 15 minutes. It may not normalize the situation, but it could give Moscow pause. Of course, Russia could retaliate by cutting off Ukrainian gas supplies, but that would mean cutting off much of Europe as well. Besides, Ukrainians proved this winter that they aren’t afraid of the cold, and spring is coming.

          So, while Vladimir Putin rattles his sabers, the authorities in Kiev might decide to just hold tight, for now. If Yanukovych destroyed his own power, he may very well destroy Putin’s as well. The fugitive ex-president, whose greed extended deep into the peninsula, isn’t a popular figure there either and any efforts to install him—especially if they bring real hardship to the locals—may spark a Maidan II.

          It's likely that Putin has factored this into his decisions. He either needs a negotiated settlement with the Ukraine, or needs to take enough of mainland Ukraine to keep Crimea's lights on and taps flowing. The latter action would risk significantly destabilizing the infrastructure that Crimea depends on, and would be a soft target for insurgents/rebels/freedom fighters...

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