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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: What the neoconservative hangers-on want from Ukraine crisis (152 comments)

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  •  Neocons want to feed the war machine. So what? (0+ / 0-)

    I understand where Mr. Parry is coming from on the neocons glee at every potential war, but I don't think that is Obama's perspective.

    Who cares what the neocons want? They have a war machine that is second to none, and lucky for us, it belongs to the USA.

    America's response to Putin's aggression is not about feeding the war machine.  Putin has his own agenda, and he does not respect Obama because of the right wing. They are his greatest ally. But many on the left are also guilty.

    Anyone that thinks Obama would threaten war in Syria or make a show of force in Ukraine for the benefit of the war machine is just wrong.

    When it comes to foreign policy, you either support Obama and make a united front against our enemies or you're part of the problem.

    While Limbaugh and others will gladly sacrifice America for the glee of seeing the black man in the White House fail, and the GOP love to score talking points for their campaigns, and the media exploit and sensationalize the horror of our country's secretive security in international affairs and hail a traitor a hero, the bottom line is, who do you want to rule you?

    As dysfunctional and infuriating and incompetent and self-gratifying as our government is, I would not want to be governed by another country, or fall under the control of another superpower. MANY empires have fallen.

    Forget what the neocons want. Support Obama and support America, and call out the right wing's hypocrisy and demand they stand up for their country WITH this President.

    Walk softly, carry a big stick, and don't let anyone think we ever be afraid to use it.

    •  "Walk softly, carry a big stick, and ... (15+ / 0-)

      ... don't let anyone think we ever be afraid to use it."

      That line being from the guy who gave us the Roosevelt Corollary essentially saying the U.S. had the right to intervene wherever and whenever it wished in Latin America.

      Just for the record, being critical of a particular administration does not equate with being unAmerican, as you imply. I've heard far too many people over the past five decades make the claim that not supporting a particular foreign policy project makes one part of the problem, a traitor. And my reply to that is always the same: Stuff it.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 10:12:07 PM PST

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      •  Expect to hear more stuff like that MB. (7+ / 0-)

        But more broadly, the case to be made that events like this are exactly why we need to double Defense spending and make the national security state even more sprawling and unmanageable. So that we 'send a message' to everybody in the world that we are a bunch of big shots who can and will get involved in everything, everywhere. No matter how much it costs us. No matter if we have any idea of the repercussions.

        I know folks take offense at my rather blunt, but consistent, belief in limiting American foreign policy to one based on a clear, hardheaded reading of what American interests are. It is this view, free of hubris, moralizing, and flag waving that fuels my distaste for getting involved in unnecessary conflicts. Especially ones, like Ukraine, where outcomes are unpredictable and risks are substantial.

        'Fuck those people' might be the wrong way to put it. But the spirit of the matter is the same: We simply can't keep believing that we must keep going around the globe getting involved in other people's disputes.

        •  I like that idea, but it's unAmerican (0+ / 0-)

          I believe the country you seek is Sweden, or maybe Finland or Norway.  One of those countries that has managed to stay out of the fray.

          We don't have that choice. This is the USA, the superpower that has to buy it's friends, and maintain relationships with as many allies as possible because we allow just anybody with a good story and plenty of money to run our country.

          So, back to reality, choosing not to play is not an option. We must play the cards we are dealt,

          •  We live in a dangerous world. (8+ / 0-)

            Enemies are out there, lurking, waiting to invade and destroy our way of life and all that we hold dear. That is why America must be strong, powerful enough to defeat as many enemies as possible, simultaneously. So that we can defeat the enemies of freedom, democracy, and human rights. We must fight them over there before we have to fight them over here. Today, sure...just the Crimea. But tomorrow, Nebraska. Then what? It'll be too late.

            The time has come for America to stand up to everyone in the entire world. Putin and anybody else. We need to send a message to the world that we're America and we're ready for a fight. We will defend human freedom everywhere in the world, anywhere it is threatened, at any cost, no matter what.

            That's how neocons and their sycophants think. It has a robusty, wide stancy ring to it. its excitingy and boldy.

            •  Swell idea (0+ / 0-)

              Or, we can all be Bush-apologists, make peace signs, hold hands, sing kumbya, and ignore the world, hoping it will go away.

              It probably will go away, and take us with it. Iran should have it's first Nuke ready about now, and they're aligned with Putin.  Then there's Syria, who holds the world's greatest cache of chemical weapons. Russia has the greatest number of nuclear warheads, and with his incursion of Crimea, he can build a bridge from Russia to his seaport on the Black Sea, while taking over the two Ukrainian bases for his own military buildup.  

              That Russian seaport in Syria will be handy, there on the Mediterranean Coast, and only Turkey is in the way. Turkey will certainly surrender when the time comes, due to the total lack of credibility the USA will have by then, not supporting their allies or honoring treaties.

              Yeah, that'll work out swell!

          •  Let's tune up the Panzers. On to Stalingrad!!! (0+ / 0-)

            Crush the Slavic Menace.  More Lebensraum for 'Murcan Free Markets!

            Hell, screw the Panzers.  It's cold in Russia in the wintertime.  Let's nuke 'em.

      •  Being critical of an administration has limits (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Maverick80229

        Putin actually believes Obama is a wimp, because he does not command his critics be silenced.

        Putin = George W. Bush, but with less law to protect Russian citizens.

        You can disagree with an Administration, just like most of America disagreed with EVERYTHING George W. Bush did and did not do, but when it comes to foreign policy, your job is to shut up and back the President of your country and stand shoulder to shoulder against any foe.

        Not like McCain, screaming about how feckless Obama is, because he doesn't recognize the fact America chose a negotiator instead of a cowboy for President.

        How quickly we forget the Dixie Chicks.

        •  When is Obama going to stand up to him? (3+ / 0-)

          When is he going to get in Putin's face and say "Look jerkoff...I'm Obama and I own a set of truck balls. Stop being a douche."

          If he doesn't adopt a wide stance foreign policy, then the school bully will just feel free to push around the nerds. And we like nerds. I mean sorta. Like we wouldn't let them play football or anything, but still. They're good for doing our homework. Because that's how it is at this school: if you don't beat up some bullies, then the bullies are just going to take over and ruin the joint. Me? No...that doesn't make me a bully too. Cuz I protect nerds and play football.

          Now check out this swing!

        •  No. My job is not to shut up. Attitudes like... (7+ / 0-)

          ..that is what got 60,000 Americans unnecessarily killed in Vietnam (plus 3-5 million Southeast Asians), and 4500 Americans in Iraq (along with an unknown number at least 25 times as many Iraqis).

          And, for the record, calling those who disagree with you unAmerican doesn't make you more of a patriot.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 02:57:45 AM PST

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    •  Who Cares What the Neocons Want? (4+ / 0-)

      I DO.

      because the bloated MIC costs us hundreds of billions of dollars year after year after year-- and that's OK with congress, apparently. all while it's "necessary" to take the meat ax to the SNAP program and other social programs.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 03:59:03 AM PST

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