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View Diary: It's Not Wage Stagnation, It's Wage Robbery (151 comments)

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  •  DS - required German style works councils (0+ / 0-)

    are a higher political mountain to climb than card check or employee ownership. And I think you won't have organized labor as an ally.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 08:58:47 PM PST

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    •  I'd disagree. (0+ / 0-)

      It's all in the framing of the debate.  Frame works councils and co-determination as an alternative to unions.  Even most rightie voters realize they're getting screwed at work.  They just buy in to the anti-union vitriol.  So offering this as an alternative to unions could work.

      As far as labors involvement: why would labor NOT want this?  It would seem to me a works council at a non-union employer would essentially be a benefit to unions, as it would theoretically be easier to organize since the works have some say-so in operations, so they could tamp down on the union crushing nonsense management tends to do at US companies.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Wed Mar 05, 2014 at 11:01:05 AM PST

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      •  For the same reason organized labor has always (0+ / 0-)

        been against organized work councils in the US. The unions see it as a replacement of, rather than a path to a union shop.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Mar 05, 2014 at 02:06:03 PM PST

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        •  I have never heard (0+ / 0-)

          of organized labor in the US objecting to works councils here.  UAW certainly embraced the idea in Chattanooga.

          Do you have an example of the opposite?

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Wed Mar 05, 2014 at 03:25:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I should have worded my comment more (0+ / 0-)

            carefully. I don't know of any attempts by unions to form works councils or any position by organized labor to oppose works councils. US organized labor has always been fearful of anything that looked like a "company union" and so I am speculating that they will think of these entities as union substitutes. The reality is that for much of Europe works councils have powers and authority that no union in the US has over employers and employees. You should reach out to some of the organized labor people here at DKOS, maybe by writing a diary, and see how they feel about works councils in non-union shops in the US. It would be interesting to read their views and see if they would support legislation to implement them.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed Mar 05, 2014 at 05:08:14 PM PST

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            •  Having been involved in the labor movement (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib, Tonedevil

              for a long time, I think your speculation on this one is a bit off.

              Labor knows that it's likely not coming back in the manner it once was in the US, and is actively looking for new ways for workers to have influence without a traditional union.  This is, in my opinion, exactly what labor leaders have been preaching for.  Contrary to the image the right portrays, organized labor is more about the workers than simply "collecting dues or making union offers the 1%" or whatever other bullshit the right usually lobs out there.  At the end of the day - it's about getting workers a fair wage and a fair shake.  As such, I don't think any true member of the labor movement would think of works councils as a bad thing in the slightest.

              You make a good point in that I should query other union members specifically on works councils to get a reading on their opinions - but since I interact with fellow union members from multiple unions on a daily basis - I think it's fairly safe to say I've already got a good idea what these folks are thinking.

              As for DKOS - in reading the UAWVW thread, I don['t recall seeing even one Kossack say anything negative about works councils - and if it was a problem for union Kossacks, I expect there would have been quite the discussion on it.  Mainly, all I saw was support.  TONS of support.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Wed Mar 05, 2014 at 05:36:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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