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View Diary: NRA Says F@&% The Elephants (28 comments)

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  •  American Ivory? (1+ / 0-)
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    jan4insight

    What animals have ivory that we in the USA can legally take and use?

    I'm asking because I don't know.  Walrus?

    •  elk (0+ / 0-)

      both sexes have two teeth per animal that are ivory. Recently a poacher was caught or it was a contributing piece of evidence that he didn't remove the ivories. The poacher was an environmental activist and he was showing his disdain for trophy portions of the animal. (but leaving meat to waste)

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:29:43 AM PST

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      •  Ban: You don't see any difference between elk ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... and elephants? Or is it consistency that you require?

        2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

        by TRPChicago on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:34:38 PM PST

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        •  just mentioning an interesting piece of ivory that (0+ / 0-)

          exists in our native wildlife that few are aware of.

          I like elephants. I've never seen them in the wild but I've spent time in forests that have them. I like the social aspect and long life of the animal, also that they are big and dangerous.

          I know there is a large poaching issue and I have no real answers. I know that regulated hunting has worked in some areas but I doubt it is possible in the whole of Africa. About the ban I'm for it as it sounds reasonable. Trophy hunters make huge contributions to conservation in Africa, that isn't curtailed. They can even bring home a limited amount of tusks per year (if I'm remembering right) They are restricted from bringing many pieces per year as that lends itself to resale.

          I'm not entirely enthusiastic on the limiting of resale of antique ivory.

          Ultimately I believe the solution lies in allowing people who live close to elephants to not be negatively impacted, to have regulated hunting as some herds are extremely over populated, and to end the illegal importation in ASia especially for rhino horn.

          It's not a simple issue at all and many people of good intent are working on it.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 07:02:22 PM PST

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          •  Kenya has banned game hunting. It pursues ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... poachers of eles and rhinos as best limited resources can. Yes, elephants can destroy farms and other wild animals can eviscerate herds of sheep and goats. But where the issue is animal crowd control, there are better answers than shooting endangered species.

            For me, there is absolutely no room for balance to be struck between ivory-handled pistols and elephants in the wild. And no reason for game-hunting any endangered specie. Responsible hunters don't do it.

            With respect, I have never heard of "over-populated elephant herds" "extremely" or otherwise, in four trips to the Kenya bush over a dozen years. As for Africa generally, I'd rely on the safari companies who take only photo-shooters to finance conservation and help train indigenous peoples.

            2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

            by TRPChicago on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 07:59:09 AM PST

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            •  I'd urge you to consider your carbon footprint, (0+ / 0-)

              just as I do urge big game hunters to do so. Global warming will cause thousands of extinctions. You could probably stand to do some reflecting on being responsible.

              South Africa has excess elephants and rhinos actually. Calling something endangered does not make it so. Success via increasing numbers of elephants and rhinos speaks for itself.

              There's this thing called science, it's how wildlife is successfully managed.

              “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

              by ban nock on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 12:02:43 PM PST

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            •  i googled (0+ / 0-)

              “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

              by ban nock on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 12:07:07 PM PST

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              •  Google away. Kenya is right for Kenya. (0+ / 0-)

                Insight has produced a world-renowned elephant sanctuary on the outskirts of Nairobi. Skill and the generosity of people who love Kenya keep it going.

                Tanzania, on the other hand, does allow big hunting (with some limitations last I looked). That's tourism officially approved of. And bully for South Africa; attention to the problem works. I agree that it does seem to have worked there too well. So I suppose big game hunters and poachers should be encouraged to descend on that country.

                Still, does your appeal to carbon footprints and global warming mean it's OK to kill elephants and rhinos because they'll die anyway? That is a good part of conservation in overpopulated areas - the deer herds on Nantucket, for example - but more to stop the spread of lyme disease by deer ticks. When a limited hunting season was added a few years ago to address the problem, the resulting OK Corral was a debacle.

                As for calling something endangered, if the call is in a law, that does indeed make it endangered ... and protected.

                To return to our original theme, I agree there's a balancing necessary. Conservation and the right use of resources will always be somewhat at odds. I just hope poaching for ivory is never justified by humane considerations.

                2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

                by TRPChicago on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 02:05:06 PM PST

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                •  You seem to confuse hunting and poaching and use (0+ / 0-)

                  them interchangeably. One is conservation, the other is crime. I hope that I've assisted you in better understanding elephants and the different attempts at their conservation, one style is achieving demonstrably good results, the other is still struggling.

                  Endangered has two meanings, one legal, the other scientific. I only use the scientific one for discussing science. I use the IUCN http://www.iucnredlist.org/...
                  My appeal for carbon is to not fly so much. I can see a once in a lifetime trip but many trips is just oil gluttony. We have to stop or we'll destroy those very things we seek to save.

                  “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                  by ban nock on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 06:57:18 PM PST

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