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View Diary: Obama's foreign policy doctrine and why it makes sense (276 comments)

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  •  even the state department (4+ / 0-)

    quickly disavowing kerry's comment indicates that he was off script, and he himself tried to downplay it. but lavrov ignored the backtracking and acted as if it was a serious proposal, and suddenly it was. i'm no fan of lavrov, but he gets credit for this.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 10:57:24 AM PDT

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    •  Why are supposed to believe the State Dept? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zizi

      At the time they put out those statements, the negotiations were still up in the air, and the administration was still working to credibly threaten force.

      They had every incentive to deny, in public, the existence of a diplomatic track - the one we all (well, most of us) learned had been going on for weeks before Kerry dropped that remark in the press conference.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 11:22:30 AM PDT

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      •  read the nyt article (0+ / 0-)

        it speaks for itself.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 11:39:12 AM PDT

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        •  The outdated one from before Putin acknowledged... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zizi

          that the talks were ongoing as far back as the G8 Summit?

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 11:49:50 AM PDT

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          •  again (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            divineorder, DeadHead

            it's no secret that the russians had made the proposal a long time before. which clearly hadn't gone anywhere, given what came next, and that state quickly tried to backtrack when kerry went public.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 11:52:59 AM PDT

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            •  Nope, wrong again, Laurence. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zizi

              Obama, Putin previously discussed plan to secure Syria chemical arms

              U.S. and Russian officials confirmed Tuesday that they have had discussions about securing Syria’s chemical arms going back months, including in a meeting between Presidents Obama and Putin at the G-20 summit last week, and that the idea was not born out of a stray comment made by US Secretary of State John Kerry at a London press conference Monday.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:14:00 PM PDT

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              •  wow (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                divineorder, DeadHead

                as i said, it's no secret that russia had been proposing a deal for months. which went nowhere. but how odd that after kerry blurted it in public, he and the state department quickly tried to backtrack, until lavrov jumped on it. as the new york times reported.

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:19:08 PM PDT

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                •  You go on insisting how odd it is. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  zizi

                  Meanwhile, the rest of us can read:

                  He and Obama agreed “to instruct Secretary of State [John Kerry] and Foreign Minister [Sergey Lavrov] to get in touch” and “try to move this idea forward,” Putin told Russia Today in an interview Tuesday.
                  Maybe it's time to walk away from the corner you've backed yourself into, because it's completely indefensible.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:27:50 PM PDT

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                  •  i know this is hard (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead

                    but i never denied it had been discussed for months. but how odd that when kerry made it public, he and state quickly backtracked. why would they do that? why would lavrov quickly jump on something kerry was running from?

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:31:39 PM PDT

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                    •  Not just "discussed," but ordered forward. (0+ / 0-)

                      Your silly little point isn't "hard," it's just stupid.

                      And no, it's not "odd" that the State Department would keep the pressure on that was succeeding in securing Russian cooperation. It's utterly unexceptional.

                      And finally, once again, you need to stop lying that Lavrov "jumped on" something that he, and Kerry, had already been on for months.

                      Just give it up. You are pathological.

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:39:42 PM PDT

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                      •  wow (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        divineorder, DeadHead

                        yeah, kerry was backing away from it, state was backing away from it, lavrov went ahead and acted as if they hadn't, and suddenly it happened. but that's not jumping on something that kerry and state were denying. or something.

                        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                        by Laurence Lewis on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:44:36 PM PDT

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                        •  Answered, over and over again. (0+ / 0-)

                          Repeating the same point with an increasing superior pose doesn't work, Laurence. It doesn't make you look less wrong to anyone following the thread.

                          Look, keep playing dumb if it's this important to you to pretend you weren't wrong.

                          Whatever, I don't care. I got what I wanted, Obama got what he wanted, Kerry got what he wanted, and the world's last chemical weapons regime has just been stripped of its chemical weapons, because of the diplomatic efforts of Barack Obama and John Kerry.

                          And all the bullshit in all the comment threads on Daily Kos aren't going to change history, or history's judgement.

                          It's just one idiot, screaming into the void because it hurts too much to admit he screwed up.

                          Art is the handmaid of human good.

                          by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:55:35 PM PDT

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    •  Even the British press obfuscates & denies (0+ / 0-)

      He said, but, they said, but . . .

      "Intentional or not, Kerry's comments opened up a chance to defuse the crisis at a moment when Obama was already struggling to persuade Congress of the need for US intervention. In his NBC interview, the president said: "You have to take this with a grain of salt initially, but between the statements that we saw from the Russians, the statement today from the Syrians, this represents a potentially positive development."
      It was "intentional" and referring to Fox + Breitbart + WaTimes and "Washington commentators is too cute. But--
      Obama also claimed that he had first discussed the idea at the G20 summit as his administration scrambled to claim credit for the Russian deal and insisted Syria was responding to US pressure. "It is unlikely that we would have arrived at that point without a credible military threat," Obama told CNN.
      Further on, The Guardian does a double waffle by printing that Downing Street did not consider the US offer as serious, but then notes "But in a Commons debate on the G20 and Syria, Cameron said it would be "hugely welcome" if the Assad regime were to hand over its chemical weapons stockpile."  Ahhh, yes, in the Commons debate which actually took place, etc.

      We're all just working for Pharoah.

      by whl on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:21:17 PM PDT

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