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View Diary: Obama's foreign policy doctrine and why it makes sense (276 comments)

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  •  Reagan would've knocked him off... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, poco, chuckvw, joe from Lowell

    I think Obama was generally angered by the coup---which is reflected by his strong statement. But the foreign policy establishment had it in for Zelaya. And they usually get what they want.

    •  I think that is an accurate assessment. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dclawyer06, chuckvw

      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

      by commonmass on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 11:08:57 AM PDT

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    •  The right-wing, out-of-power FP establishment did. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dclawyer06

      As always happens in a Latin American coup, Otto Reich had all sorts of connections to what happened.

      But Otto Reich isn't in the State Department anymore. That particular "establishment" had to go free-booting this time, because they weren't getting any help from the administration or State Department.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:06:19 PM PDT

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      •  They got their [relative] silence... (0+ / 0-)

        And that ain't nuthin...

        •  That word "relative" is doing an awful lot of work (0+ / 0-)

          You know, I've been paying attention to American politics for a long time. I've been paying attention to American foreign policy in Latin American for a long time.

          To refer to the Obama State Department's denunciations of the Honduran coup as "relative silence" is pretty implausible, if you know anything about that history.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 12:30:07 PM PDT

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          •  I watched the situation in Honduras closely... (0+ / 0-)

            And I can tell you, when the US denounces a coup as unlawful but---pointedly and repeatedly---refuses to call for the return of those deposed we send a message. Loud and clear.

            I guarantee the usurpers heard it.
            I sure did.

            •  But we did call for his return. (0+ / 0-)

              You're clearly wrong about following the situation in Honduras closely, if you don't know the information included in the very link I just gave you:

              U.S. President Barack Obama said on Monday the coup that ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was illegal and would set a "terrible precedent" of transition by military force unless it was reversed.

              "We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the president of Honduras, the democratically elected president there," Obama told reporters after an Oval Office meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.

              ...
              Obama said he would work with the Organization of American States and other international institutions to restore Zelaya to power and "see if we can resolve this in a peaceful way."

              Think about this: you think that you've been following the situation in Honduras closely, to the point where you can criticize the administration's response, and you don't even know what that response is.

              What does "following closely" amount to, to you? Reading "Narco News?"

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Sun Mar 09, 2014 at 01:10:17 PM PDT

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              •  Read your own fucking link... (0+ / 0-)

                The WH did not characterize Zelaya's overthrow as a coup, not formally. They were busy sending mixed messages, which must've been a relief to the thugs who carried out the plot.

                From your link:

                Despite Obama's comments, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the administration was not formally designating the ouster as a military coup for now, a step that would force a cut-off of most U.S. aid to Honduras.

                Under U.S. law, no aid -- other than for the promotion of democracy -- may be provided to a country whose elected head of government has been toppled in a military coup.

                IOW, ignore the plain meaning of the speech Obama just gave. They get to cloak themselves in a noble aura while doing very little. The appearance of principle.

                I wonder what message that sent to Micheletti and crew?
                Don't answer, I've had enough of your bullshit.

                •  Wrong again. They called it an illegal coup. (0+ / 0-)

                  What your quote says is that they didn't call it a military coup - which is exactly what I said. They called it an illegal coup.

                  Anyway, I see you're running away from your claim that they didn't call for Zelaya's return. What's the matter, that one didn't work out for you, so it goes down the memory hole?

                  I do love the way that what Obama said, or didn't say, was the  most important thing in the world when you wrote your last comment, but now, when you see him saying something you were too ignorant to bother knowing he said, it suddenly turns into empty symbolism.

                  Why should I pay the slightest attention to what messages they were sending, and what you assume anyone took from them? You don't even have your facts right, but that's clearly not something that's going to stop you.

                  You throw a little "I've had enough of your bullshit" tantrum over your shoulder, but you're still wrong, and anyone reading this thread knows it.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 06:25:46 AM PDT

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