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View Diary: Ukraine: The far right will lose, unless saved by Russia (80 comments)

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  •  Not sure what that has to do with (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Lyon

    the upcoming elections.

    And I haven't seen any posts from those people here on DailyKos. With the exception of a few quotes from pro-EU protesters.

    The fact of the matter is that we are hearing nearly nothing from "the people" of Ukraine here at Daily Kos.

    If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

    by AoT on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 04:18:32 PM PDT

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    •  we have heard (0+ / 0-)

      from people here who read slavic-language media. but i tend to think the ukrainians made their feelings known in the streets and in parliament, and now will at the ballot box.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 04:20:10 PM PDT

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      •  You mean the parliamentary election (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon

        that was found by international observers to be more flawed than the presidential election?

        ukrainians made their feelings known in the streets
        And has anyone posted here about what the street protesters were calling for? What groups they were made up of? Because you're treating them as some variegated whole, which they aren't. What exactly did you hear them say? That they want to join the EU? That they want to join NATO? Because that's sure as hell what everyone here is pretending they said. That and "Russia is evil and we overthrew our government because we hate Russia!"

        But again, I haven't seen anyone talk about what various groups want, just about what "Ukraine" wants based on a bunch of media almost certainly owned by a bunch of oligarchs. And when I or others tries to move the conversation along we're accused of supporting Russia for some damn reason.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 04:28:48 PM PDT

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        •  that's part of the point (0+ / 0-)

          while many were there because they wanted to sign the deal with the eu- that was the trigger- they weren't a variegated whole. they were joined by a common desire to get rid of yanukovych. now, they're going to have another round of elections, with the whole world watching. which has potential to be a big step forward.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 04:37:07 PM PDT

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          •  And everyone standing is one of the oligarchs (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Richard Lyon

            Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 04:58:24 PM PDT

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            •  yes and no (0+ / 0-)

              they have different ideologies and different approaches. but any of the leading contenders will be better than yanukovych, who was utterly corrupt and inept.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 05:25:04 PM PDT

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              •  They'll get power and act the same (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Richard Lyon

                Tymoshenko was already rightfully in jail for corruption before they sprung her.

                If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

                by AoT on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 05:35:37 PM PDT

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                •  Not so (3+ / 0-)

                  The conviction of Tymoshenko was almost universally regarded a politically motivated show trial and her release was one of the conditions in the Association Agreement. Another reason for the former President to renage on the deal.

                  "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                  by Lib Dem FoP on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 05:47:26 PM PDT

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                •  flat wrong (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  another American

                  amnesty and everyone else said she was a political prisoner. she was another in a series of failed ukrainian presidents, but neither she nor her many cabinet officers who were jailed had committed crimes.

                  The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                  by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 06:09:19 PM PDT

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                  •  She was never president. n/t (0+ / 0-)
                    •  yes (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      AoT, debedb

                      i'm tired. and fed up with the disinformation and ct being spewed here daily.

                      and here's what amnesty said:

                      “The prosecution against Yuliya Timoshenko is politically motivated. The charges against her are not internationally recognizable offences, they are attempts to criminalize decisions that she made in the course of her work," said John Dalhuisen, Europe and Central Asia Deputy Programme Director of Amnesty International.

                      "Poor political decisions of this kind – if that is what they were - should be punished by voters, not through courts. Her conviction on these charges is illegitimate and she should be immediately released."

                      the european court of human rights:
                      "The court held in particular: that Ms. Tymoshenko's pretrial detention had been arbitrary; that the lawfulness of her detention had not been properly reviewed; and that she had no possibility to seek compensation for her unlawful deprivation of liberty," according to a press release. "The court also found that, given that the judge had referred to her alleged hindering of the proceedings and contemptious behavior, her right to liberty had been restricted for other reasons than those permissible under Article 5."
                      but go ahead and rec up russian propaganda that has been discounted by every credible observer on the planet.

                      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                      by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 06:46:18 PM PDT

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    •  Actually (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      justintime, AoT

      If you read my recent diary, it links to Ukrainians. I let them speak through my diary.

      "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

      by ZhenRen on Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 06:56:30 PM PDT

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